A Discussion on Mental Health and Depression in the Dental Industry with Dr. Kyle Stanley, DDS

Host: Ladies and gentlemen, this is The Dental Up Podcast, brought to you by Keating Dental Lab, a full-service, award-winning dental laboratory. Each week, you’ll learn tips and techniques from real world dentists. Bringing you in depth interviews, motivating stories, current events, and sports. Here’s your host, Shaun Keating. Shaun Keating: Hey, everyone. Shaun here. Welcome to another episode of The Dental Up Podcast. Our guest this week graduated from the Herman Ostrow School of Dentistry of USC and he completed a dental implant residency along with a dental implant specialty in Florianópolis, Brazil. The Academy of Aesthetic Dentistry awarded our guest with the Charles L. Pincus Award for outstanding achievements in aesthetic dentistry and The Seattle Study Club also named him one of the top 10 young educators in dentistry today. Currently practicing from Beverly Hills, California, please welcome Dr. Kyle Stanley, DDS. How’s it going, Dr. Stanley? Dr. Stanley: Hi Shaun. Thanks for having me on. Shaun Keating: Dude, that’s so cool you came on, man, and I’m just looking at your picture. You’re right there Hollywood movie star looks, man. That’s awesome. Dr. Stanley: Thanks a lot. Shaun Keating: You’re sitting there [crosstalk 00:01:26]- Dr. Stanley: You got to fit in around here, you know? Shaun Keating: Oh, I’ll tell you man, I bet you it’s a… I’ve only been at Beverly Hills… I’ve lived here all my life, I’ve been there a couple times just driving through, but what a beautiful place and just you guys got everything there. I know the headquarters for Rolex is right in your… they do a lot of [crosstalk 00:01:46]- Dr. Stanley: That’s right. Shaun Keating: Service right there and I roll these out there every once in a while, but they go to Beverly Hills, man. That’s so awesome. Dr. Stanley: That’s right, yeah. It’s an interesting place to practice because of- Shaun Keating: I bet. Dr. Stanley: Of course, celebrities and people want to fly in and get work completed in this area. Every day is something new and something exciting. Shaun Keating: Oh, I bet you, man. I worked with a few dentists out of Beverly Hills in the past and they’re amazing guys. They’re definitely in it. It’s such a high pressure with the demanding patients that you have there. People with the money, they’re not the easiest people [crosstalk 00:02:27] to work on, I take it. Dr. Stanley: Yeah, that’s definitely true. You either have… It’s kind of extremes. You either have the very, very easygoing or the super picky difficult patients. We’ve come to know those patients well and figured out ways of making it a little more practical and how to talk to them. Shaun Keating: No kidding. That’s probably a lot everywhere, you’re going to have demanding patients, you’re going to have chilled, kicked-back patients. I think it’s just the silly human race that we’re with, but I think just that 90210 zip code, man, I think it’s the most expensive place in all the United States, most expensive zip code. Dr. Stanley: It’s an expensive place. I wonder if it’s the same as kind of San Francisco, Manhattan- Shaun Keating: Yeah, I think San Francisco [crosstalk 00:03:25]- Dr. Stanley: You know those three places are top real estate. Shaun Keating: Yes, I think you guys might be number two or three, but I know in San Francisco with all techies and the small amount of land and prices of homes, they’re through the roof. Dr. Stanley: That’s true, but I think you’re right because everybody has these kind of patients. Whether you’re in the middle of Nebraska, whether you’re in Texas or Miami or anywhere you’re going to have really picky patients and you’re going to have really easygoing patients. Shaun Keating: Oh, absolutely. Dr. Stanley: A lot of my colleagues will say like, “Oh, if you’re treating celebrities, aren’t they really picky?” It’s the same thing, they’re humans, so you have very easygoing celebrities and you have very difficult celebrities too. Shaun Keating: I think that goes across the board with everyone, and there’s some guys like in Beverly Hills, they got all that money, they’re chill, but then there’s some guys that are just mean as heck when they got the monies, and it’s just so weird how that works. I met so many guys that are so well off and they’re just so humble and they’re like the guy next door and that’s the way in life it really should be. Dr. Stanley: Totally. Shaun Keating: Then, you got these other guys that, I don’t know, they’re just kind of… it is what it is there. Well, hey [crosstalk 00:04:41]- Dr. Stanley: That’s right. Those are the patients that are talking about mamelons and they use words like interproximal papilla and gingival margin, they know the teeth numbers. Those are the scary ones. Shaun Keating: They’ve been watching too many videos on YouTube- Dr. Stanley: That’s right. Shaun Keating: And they just got a little too much time, “You know, what about this interproximal space? I’m thinking about my embrasures being open a little bit more and these buccal cusps”… I’ve never… It’s just like, “What?” Dr. Stanley: I know. You’re going, “Are you a dentist?” Shaun Keating: That’s where you punt. You say, “You know what? I don’t think I can work with you.” No. You got to find a right way to say when to punt even if it’s on third. Third down I’m punting, I’m not doing it. Dr. Stanley: It takes a while to learn how to say no, and that’s a very important thing that I tell a lot of my students that I teach, the younger doctors is, “You’ll learn the hard way because you won’t learn just by me telling you- Shaun Keating: Exactly- Dr. Stanley: “But you’ll learn how I learn, by taking the cases that you shouldn’t have taken and going through all the stress and going through everything [crosstalk 00:05:40] and then you really learn.” Shaun Keating: Absolutely. Learn in the tranches, man. You can only read [crosstalk 00:05:46]- Dr. Stanley: That’s right- Shaun Keating: So much in the books, babe. You got to get in the trenches and get after it, so… Dr. Stanley: That’s right. Shaun Keating: Well, hey, dude, I always start off a little bit talking about sports. Now, this is the big week. College football just started and I know you’re a USC guy. You falling those Trojans at all? Or no? Or- Dr. Stanley: No, no. I’m not a big football person, but what’s interesting is I was lecturing in Orlando last week and in Orlando you had the two big Florida football teams playing each other- Shaun Keating: Okay, yeah. Dr. Stanley: And it was crazy. Shaun Keating: Oh, they go nuts out there. Dr. Stanley: Oh yeah. On the plane, because I had to stop in Atlanta on the way out, so on the plane you had everyone talking, “Are you going to the game? Are you going to the game?” No, everyone is wearing their colors and it was wild. Shaun Keating: That’s so date. The college fans are [crosstalk 00:06:41]- Dr. Stanley: It was fun to be there. Shaun Keating: They’re just so fricking… they’re into it, especially you go down the Bible Belt area and down back in Texas and [crosstalk 00:06:50]- Dr. Stanley: Exactly. Shaun Keating: Alabama and Clemson, South Carolina, it’s almost like a religion. On Friday nights, there’s the local high schools. The town will shut down and same thing on Saturdays. It’s just such a big thing and for us out here in Southern Cal, we got Trojans. Poor guy, that starting quarterback is out for the season, blew out his knee and he is a local kid from Mater Dei and [crosstalk 00:07:16]- Dr. Stanley: Oh, okay. We used to play Mater Dei. Shaun Keating: Oh, those guys are so good. Bruce Rollinson, Head Coach, I know him quite well and he [crosstalk 00:07:25]- Dr. Stanley: Cool. Shaun Keating: He’s been doing it for 30-some odd years and he’s just a smart little guy, but his voice is like, “Shaun, man, what are you doing?” We’d always meet at this Northwood Pizza over in Irvine and after the games and, oh man, that’s just good times. I’m excited because it’s Thursday night. We got the Bears against the Packers. NFL season starts off and [crosstalk 00:07:46] so start of the season, and then Sunday, where all the regular games will come and our Rams play the Carolina Panthers, man. Opening in Carolina, the season, and hopefully on our way to another Super Bowl, but you got to be huge out there in Beverly Hills. It’s going to be just so much crazier come football [crosstalk 00:08:08]- Dr. Stanley: Oh yeah. Shaun Keating: Season. Not only this year, but next year when… it’s out of Inglewood, but it’s just all the L.A. fans and stuff. It’s just going to be a big buzz- Dr. Stanley: Of for sure- Shaun Keating: And then with [crosstalk 00:08:18]- Dr. Stanley: We’re excited to have that stadium out here. For me, it’s kind of cool because I remember when the Rams were in L.A. and I [crosstalk 00:08:26]- Shaun Keating: Exactly. Dr. Stanley: Remember going to see the Rams at Angels Stadium [crosstalk 00:08:30]- Shaun Keating: Me too, me too. We used to bring our [crosstalk 00:08:31] boys there and [crosstalk 00:08:33] see there [crosstalk 00:08:33]- Dr. Stanley: Kind of a cool circle for me to be back with the Rams in L.A. Shaun Keating: Oh, absolutely, and then you got the new stadium, which is going to be a destination, but then the big thing with [crosstalk 00:08:46]- Dr. Stanley: Oh, for sure. Shaun Keating: With the Lakers is LeBron, it was okay last season. They were just still kind of horrible, but they got Anthony Davis or whatever, man. They got this stud and it’s just going to be a really neat season. They’re almost favored to win it after not being in the playoffs for six, seven, eight years or whatever. They’re like rated like… The bookies, they don’t… they’re not wrong very much, and that’s why they’re in the business, and so they’re [crosstalk 00:09:14]- Dr. Stanley: It’ll be nice to have some good basketball again because I was actually living in downtown L.A. when the Lakers were really good, and when the Kings won the Stanley Cup [crosstalk 00:09:26]- Shaun Keating: The Stanley Cup [crosstalk 00:09:27]- Dr. Stanley: I was living in downtown L.A., so that was a cool time. I was about two blocks from Staples Center. Shaun Keating: Can you believe that? Dr. Stanley: It was great. Well, for good and bad because sometimes you had a little bit of rioting, but [crosstalk 00:09:38]- Shaun Keating: Yeah, you did. Dr. Stanley: Most of the time, just fun celebrations. Shaun Keating: The guys there are learning from back east, the guys that torched the cars and it’s like [crosstalk 00:09:50]- Dr. Stanley: That’s right. Shaun Keating: “Come on, guys. Be nice.” No, that’s so nuts, but no, it’s a good time for our sports teams. Even the Dodgers, they’re in the World Series every other year lately and they got a super good team and they just need to get over the hump this year and win it all. That Cody Bellinger kid, we used to watch him locally here. It was played in [crosstalk 00:10:10]- Dr. Stanley: Was he an Orange County guy? Shaun Keating: I don’t think he was. I just remembered watching him. We moved to a place called Northwood, Irvine, way back in the day because in 1987 I’d seen him in the Little League World Series and I’m like, “Where is this team?” We had bought our first home in Garden Grove because we grew up in Huntington, but lived in Garden Grove but I remember [crosstalk 00:10:29]- Dr. Stanley: That’s where my first home was, although with my parents up there [crosstalk 00:10:32] I grew up, yeah. Shaun Keating: Trask and Harbor, baby, right off the 22 Freeway. Dr. Stanley: Oh, nice. We had a home in Garden Grove before we moved to Yorba Linda. Shaun Keating: That was us because it was affordable and stuff and [crosstalk 00:10:44]- Dr. Stanley: That’s right. Shaun Keating: We grew up in Huntington but we couldn’t afford that Huntington Beach home, but it was a start for sure, but it was just… No, it’s just a great thing to see that. Anyway, so we moved there because of all these Northwood, Irvine, parents and I thought it would be a great place to move, so after we sold the home in Irvine, I mean in Garden Grove, we moved to Irvine and when our kids were old enough to be in the All-Stars, I was actually the manager of the All-Star Team and I’m thinking, “We’re going to go all the way.” First round we lost and it was like, “What the heck?” It’s like you thought you were going to go all the way. Shaun Keating: Anyways, that Cody Bellinger dude, he was in the Little League World Series and his team, he might have been Arizona, I’m not sure, but his Dad was the manager and ex-Major League baseball player, too. They went all the way and I don’t know if they won it all. They won the American, so they went and played for the Championship, but he was a stud then, hitting out home runs and he was like the only 11-year-old and most of them were all [crosstalk 00:11:43] 12-year-olds. He was the only 11-year-old and his Dad was the manager, but the kid was driving home runs even back then and here it is 11 years later, whatever. I think it was 2008 or ’09 or something. I’m not sure exactly the year, but he’s only I think like 23, but he’s like leading the league in home runs and he’s just really come a long way from being a local kid in Little League baseball to making it in the majors, and now he’s just blowing up [crosstalk 00:12:10]- Dr. Stanley: Good for him. Shaun Keating: It is really neat to see someone that come through and, God, I think he’s at 40 or 50 home runs already, and that’s just… no one’s done that [crosstalk 00:12:19]- Dr. Stanley: Geez. Shaun Keating: Since they were juicing up the ball and juicing up the bodies, back when Sosa and Giambi and- Dr. Stanley: McGwire. Shaun Keating: Barry Bonds. I kind of miss that, man, and McGwire, yeah. Just launching the balls, baby. It’s like sliding, instead of all this [crosstalk 00:12:36]- Dr. Stanley: All those superhuman… the juiced superhumans, right? Shaun Keating: Yeah. We need a little juice. No, just kidding. Dude, let me go ahead. Let’s go ahead and Dental Up, Dr. Stanley. Let’s go through… I’m going to get a little bit more about where you started and stuff and your college [crosstalk 00:12:54]- Dr. Stanley: Sure. Shaun Keating: And all that, but I kind of got a thing here. You do a lot of speaking. You’re a keynote speaker and some of your different topics on different things when it comes to mental health and stuff like that, but September is… right now, September is Suicide Prevention and Awareness Month, and I didn’t know this until my producer brought me these questions. It’s kind of a somber thing, but we’re looking at notes here that just not even the dentistry suicide rate, but the U.S. suicide rate since 1999, it’s up like 33%. That’s like in 20 years [crosstalk 00:13:28]- Dr. Stanley: Wow. Shaun Keating: It’s gone up and the latest results from 2017, but it’s up 33%. That’s tough and it’s just… Can you elaborate on some of the causes that create depression or poor mental health? What do you see? What are you thinking about when that’s occurring more and more lately? Dr. Stanley: Well, the weird thing was I was always seeing that dentists were like the top one or two jobs in the U.S., and I was like, “Oh, okay. That’s pretty cool.” Then, I had kind of a hard time in my life, that many doctors get burned-out and I’ve seen this in lab technicians as well and hygienists and surgeons, periodontists. I was saying, “How do we have the best job when so many of us are stressed out?” I started talking with people. Everyone was like, “Yeah, I’m stressed out. I’m stressed out.” I started looking into this and then I found some statistics because me being like speaker and a researcher, I always go back to research. It’s always like my baseline. I started seeing some things saying being a dentist increased risk of suicide by 564%. Shaun Keating: Dang. Dr. Stanley: Just being a dentist- Shaun Keating: That’s crazy. Dr. Stanley: And it’s wild. When I’m speaking… I can be speaking for, I don’t know, 500 people let’s say and I say, “Anybody here know a dentist who has committed suicide?” Usually, about 70% of the people raise their hands. Shaun Keating: Oh, I know. I know. Dr. Stanley: That wouldn’t be the case if the people in the audience were another profession. Shaun Keating: Exactly. Dr. Stanley: If they were construction workers or if they were teachers or if they were stay-at-home moms or… it just doesn’t happen. I started looking into why this is the case, and selfishly, it was kind of to help myself to realize why I was going through a difficult time, and so like one of the big ones… I have 12 different ones that I speak on, 12 different topics, but number one is an environment of fear. We’re always working when people are afraid, and not only just a little bit afraid but like deathly afraid. There’s one study in 2002 that says public speaking is the number one fear. That’s good, I beat that one. Number two is the dentist- Shaun Keating: Dang. Dr. Stanley: And number three is death, actually, so people would rather die than go to the dentist. Shaun Keating: Oh man. Dr. Stanley: All of us dentists and lab technicians, you guys have worked with these patients [crosstalk 00:16:20]- Shaun Keating: I know. Dr. Stanley: That are deathly afraid and they’re shaking, their blood pressure is high, they’re sweating, their hands are clammy. Shaun Keating: Oh yeah. Dr. Stanley: Oftentimes because they’re so afraid they don’t come in until it’s very bad- Shaun Keating: Oh yeah. Dr. Stanley: And then, when it’s very bad, they need the most work, the most invasive work and the longest work, the most expensive work. It’s kind of this bad cycle. Shaun Keating: It’s so tough and it’s such a bad rap because I had the same thing with our family growing up in like the ’70s when we went to the dentist for the first time and they’re seven and eight and nine and 10 years old. We just had a bad dentist that couldn’t get us numb because we had to have fillings done or extractions and there’s nothing worse than a guy not being able to get a basic block on you. It’s like, “Dude, numb that up.” I always felt that way and I didn’t like the smell of the enamel when they’re trying to do that silver amalgam, but we could get through that, but the whole thing was the pain. I swear, it’s just come so far in the ’80s and ’90s and the 2000s with doctors just getting better at that because then I’d went to the doctors, the dentists, and I felt no pain ever when I went to a dentist that was [crosstalk 00:17:40]- Dr. Stanley: Totally different, right? Shaun Keating: Totally different experience, even the way you couldn’t even feel the needle when they went and wiggled your lip and they’re getting smart about being able to show the shot and wiggle the lip. You had no pain and they didn’t stop working until you could be numb. It was just a beautiful thing. I’m mean, I even had an implant put in where it was just like getting a restoration put on or a crown put on. There’s no pain and that’s the way it should be and it’s just too bad… it’s like there should be a dental thing out there where… a marketing promo, “Have you seen your dentist lately and how enjoyable it is?” You’re not having any kind of screaming… like all the old TV shows with the famous dental scenes with the dentists and it’s not like that. It’s a very [crosstalk 00:18:29]- Dr. Stanley: It’s so interesting you bring that up because that’s my number two topic is the media portrayal. The media portrayal hasn’t changed of the dentists in 50 years. Shaun Keating: Exactly. Dr. Stanley: You still think of The Little Shop of Horrors person, Steve Martin, or remember when the guy killed the lion and he was a dentist and how they focused so much [crosstalk 00:18:51]- Shaun Keating: Fricking a [crosstalk 00:18:52]- Dr. Stanley: On the fact, “Well, of course, he killed that beautiful, majestic creature. He’s a dentist and dentists are all crazy and like to hurt people.” I think that that really plays into how people think about us. The last time that there was any good publicity on dentistry was the late ’90s/early 2000s when it was The Swan and Extreme Makeover. Shaun Keating: Exactly, Dorfman and stuff. Dr. Stanley: Maybe they took it too far with that maybe a little bit, but that was really showing, “Hey, we can change lives. We can [crosstalk 00:19:27] give people back their confidence. We can make people excited to start dating again, to go out and get a better job, to take care of themselves.” Shaun Keating: Exactly. Dr. Stanley: That media portrayal, I would love to see people like the ADA, the CDA, AACB, all these associations pay money to get positive media portrayals, and like you said, show what it’s like to go to the dentist now. Shaun Keating: Exactly, show it. Dr. Stanley: At my office, you’ve got massage and heat in the chair. We’ll put a blanket on you. You have both headphones. You’re watching Netflix on the ceiling, advanced anesthesia. It’s not as difficult as it used to be. Shaun Keating: Oh yeah, I mean even like that wand… the wand where there’s no needles and it’s like, “Dang.” It’s like, “Oh, it’s like a little machine. Okay, I think we’re good.” I remember when Hornbrook did me on that one time. I was like, “What the heck?” It’s like unbelievable. You don’t… That’s the way [crosstalk 00:20:34] it needs to be. Really, you need to have a thing out there. It’s really neat to see the dentist nowadays. You’re not going to have any anxiety- Dr. Stanley: That’s right. Shaun Keating: You’re not going to have any pain, and you can get in and out in an hour with like the CEREC or whatever. You don’t have to have a second visit. There’s just so many positives and the change and transformation of your life. It’s not the old days of like that Carol Burnett guy with his thing in the dental chair, even [crosstalk 00:21:00] Doug Heffernan had one on King of Queens, which was great, him trying to swallow. Oh, it’s not like that and [crosstalk 00:21:07]- Dr. Stanley: It’s always negative. Shaun Keating: It’s too bad that it’s like that, and I think dentists get pulled down when every patient coming in has the same thing. “Is it going to hurt?” My brother Kevin is a dentist [crosstalk 00:21:16]- Dr. Stanley: Totally. Shaun Keating: He always tells them, he goes, “I’m not going to feel a thing.” Dr. Stanley: They did a study where they checked the blood pressure of dentists as they were giving injections and their blood pressure can go up as high as 20 points- Shaun Keating: Oh, absolutely. Dr. Stanley: While they’re giving injections because we don’t want to hurt anybody- Shaun Keating: Exactly. Dr. Stanley: And so there’s anxiety that comes with giving injections as well. Shaun Keating: Oh, I know. Dr. Stanley: You get these things where I’ll meet somebody… I don’t know, because I travel a lot on a plane. They’ll say, “What do you do?” I say, “Oh, I’m a dentist.” They say, “I hate dentists.” I go [crosstalk 00:21:54]- Shaun Keating: Why? Dr. Stanley: “Remember when I just told you that I was a dentist?” Shaun Keating: That’s got to hurt me. You got to have some feelings. My people, they don’t hate me, it’s just such an old stigma that it’s got to be broken [crosstalk 00:22:08]- Dr. Stanley: It is. Shaun Keating: It really is, and maybe that’s wearing on them because it is tough, I’m sure. Every day seeing these people, and my brother, Kevin, is an endodontist, so all he does is endo, but [crosstalk 00:22:19]- Dr. Stanley: Oh yeah, but they’re always in pain. Shaun Keating: Always in pain and I just really love the way he says, “Is it going to hurt?” “No, I’m not going to feel a thing.” He has got that good personality and in a matter of seconds, he has got them out of pain and within an hour, he is done and everything is textbook perfect. That patient just… he has such a good following of people just saying how much they love him for taking them out of pain, but how gentle and how painless it is to go see him. I think there is some dentists out there that push that and really with their testimonials are having it to where the patients are just saying how gentle and nice and how trusting they feel. Shaun Keating: I think with dentists out there that are real and are real with the patients and their employees and genuinely in their heart enjoy what they’re doing, it’s just like in any field. People can tell and some dentists are wired up and some people are just a little stressed and they let the people… To begin with, they’re not people persons and it’s kind of tough to be a great dentist if you’re not a people person because you’re going to be getting people in their face [crosstalk 00:23:26]- Dr. Stanley: That is so true [crosstalk 00:23:27]- Shaun Keating: All day, and that’s like, “Dude!” Dr. Stanley: That’s so true. I remember in dental school, a lot of people were very people persons, but the problem I think with dentistry and medicine is that you get people that work really hard and are generally on the smarter side, and then oftentimes those people aren’t people persons [crosstalk 00:23:50]- Shaun Keating: They don’t want to hear this guy jabbing in their ear like Mr. Nice, and they’re like kind of [crosstalk 00:23:55]- Dr. Stanley: Exactly. Shaun Keating: You got to be like a psychologist, almost know how to handle this person, each one. You have to be kind of like the coach [crosstalk 00:24:03]- Dr. Stanley: It’s true. Shaun Keating: Or the psychologist, like cheerleader. You got to know when to be a certain way and that’s how I think it’s setting [crosstalk 00:24:10]- Dr. Stanley: It’s true. My mentor, Christian Coachman, he says that your patients have to like you and they have to trust you, and it has to be both. It can’t just be one or the other, and it’s so true. Shaun Keating: It is, man, and it’s just a lot of times your staff can kind of intertwine with these patients and make it all work, where the dentist kind of comes in and does the hard work and the mechanical work [crosstalk 00:24:33]- Dr. Stanley: Oh yeah, having a really empathetic team [crosstalk 00:24:38] really is understated [crosstalk 00:24:40]- Shaun Keating: Oh, it is [crosstalk 00:24:41]- Dr. Stanley: Because oftentimes, they’ve already calmed them down before you even come in. Shaun Keating: Oh, absolutely. No, it is. It’s so neat when a staff has been with a doctor a long time or even if it’s a short time but if they’re all clicking together like a cohesive unit and just on the same page and trying to treat these people well. It just shows [crosstalk 00:25:03]- Dr. Stanley: True. Shaun Keating: And those are the practices that are growing. Those are the ones that are sleeping well at night and it’s just… it’s tough. It’s tough in any field. I’m sure you have your stresses, but with dentistry, if you allow it to happen I’m sure you can have it manifest more, like miserable people coming in and I’m letting it get me down, and where you can’t. You got to let it kind of hit you off like Teflon. You got to feel it, but you got to try to help them somehow to get them positive on the situation. We’re going to make the best of this and this is going to be something that [crosstalk 00:25:34]- Dr. Stanley: That’s true. Shaun Keating: It’s so important I think, but no, that’s huge for sure. I’m looking here, too, that… Get off track a little bit, but you studied with Dr. Pascale Magne, or you did a [crosstalk 00:25:48]- Dr. Stanley: That’s right. Shaun Keating: Mini residency, a world leader and minimally invasive dentistry. Tell me a little bit about that. How did that go for you? Dr. Stanley: I was really lucky to be on something called The Aesthetic Selective when I was in dental school with Dr. Magne, and so he’s definitely a world leader in biomimetic dentistry, veneers, bonding, and so he basically picked 10 or 11 students, something like that, to work directly with him for about 18 months- Shaun Keating: No kidding? Dr. Stanley: And we just clicked and I’ve been teaching with Dr. Magne for the last I guess eight years at USC [crosstalk 00:26:30]- Shaun Keating: No kidding? Good for you, man. Dr. Stanley: I just got really, really lucky to have him as my first mentor. He got me into my residency in Brazil and introduced me to my next mentor, Sascha Jovanovic, so he’s just been… I call him my dental father. Shaun Keating: No kidding [crosstalk 00:26:47]- Dr. Stanley: He is just a great person and an amazing dentist, researcher. He taught me so, so much and he’s one of the best speakers as well. Shaun Keating: He is like a dental ceramist, too, I think or something. I just know he’s so [crosstalk 00:26:58]- Dr. Stanley: His brother is a ceramist [crosstalk 00:26:58]- Shaun Keating: That’s it [crosstalk 00:27:04]- Dr. Stanley: He understands all of the aspects of ceramics as well. He’s pretty amazing. Shaun Keating: I kind of butchered his name. Magne, but it’s Magne. Isn’t he like French or something? Dr. Stanley: Magne, yeah. Magne, yeah. He is French, so he is from Switzerland. Shaun Keating: Oh, okay. Dr. Stanley: He has a French accent. Shaun Keating: Oh, man. I think I’ve met him a few times and shook his hand and stuff, but- Dr. Stanley: Oh yeah. Shaun Keating: I just know he’s the man at USC, man. That’s so cool and- Dr. Stanley: He is. Shaun Keating: That’s so neat. Tell me a little bit about, why did you get into dentistry? At what point did you think, “I want to be a dentist”? Dr. Stanley: My Dad is a dentist, my brother is a dentist. I never [crosstalk 00:27:41]- Shaun Keating: You’re kidding? That’s awesome. Dr. Stanley: I never thought that I would be a dentist, actually. I was always an artist my whole life and I was a [crosstalk 00:27:47]- Shaun Keating: Oh, good for you. Dr. Stanley: I was a professional dancer, I was a professional musician at one point in my life. Shaun Keating: What instrument did you play? Dr. Stanley: I like to draw. I played the bass. Shaun Keating: Like the big stand up [crosstalk 00:27:58] bass? Or a bass like [crosstalk 00:28:03]- Dr. Stanley: No, I played the bass guitar. I was in a rock band and [crosstalk 00:28:04]- Shaun Keating: You like Geezer Butler [crosstalk 00:28:06] You like Geezer Butler at all? The way he plays? Or- Dr. Stanley: Yeah. Good stuff. Shaun Keating: Dang. I love that. We need a bass [crosstalk 00:28:14]- Dr. Stanley: I grew up on the ’80s rock. Shaun Keating: Hair [crosstalk 00:28:18] nation, that’s me, too. Dr. Stanley: That’s great. Exactly, but that was my band, and then in college, I knew I wanted to do something medical and I originally thought plastic surgery. I thought that would be very artistic, and then I said, “Well, I don’t know. Let me just try dentistry.” I told my Dad, “Hey, I want to maybe go shadow some dentists.” He said, “Well, I’ve got a friend named Chris Larson who is an oral surgeon in Los Alamitos and maybe you can go hang out with him.” Shaun Keating: Perfect. Dr. Stanley: I ended up working with him for like two years and became an oral surgery assistant [crosstalk 00:28:55]- Shaun Keating: Really? Dr. Stanley: And I just really fell in love with that aspect of dentistry. Then, I applied to dental school and I got in on my second try, not on my first try- Shaun Keating: Perfect. Dr. Stanley: And just kind of took off from there. Shaun Keating: What a trip. Did you break… did you work on any broken jaws when you were working with that oral surgeon at all? Dr. Stanley: I did, yeah [crosstalk 00:29:16]- Shaun Keating: That’s so crazy. Dr. Stanley: I’d be designing orthognathic surgery spends and of course a lot of wisdom teeth and sinus lifts and bone grafts and lateralizing nerves and [crosstalk 00:29:26]- Shaun Keating: That’s so crazy. Dr. Stanley: Some crazy stuff. Shaun Keating: I know. My brother Kevin, he interned for an oral surgeon, too, a little bit when he was on Dr. Stark. He was down in Long Beach, right by the water and Lawrence Stark. I remember him to this day, and he was an ex-Vietnam guy dentist that he’d work on so many messed up people with all sorts of things, but [crosstalk 00:29:50]- Dr. Stanley: Oh yeah. Shaun Keating: So many jaws realigning them and making sure you try to get that bite right and you just look at the before [crosstalk 00:29:56] X-rays and the after and it’s [crosstalk 00:29:58]- Dr. Stanley: Crazy. Shaun Keating: It’s so amazing, and those are hours and hours under for the surgery and the people being under four, five, six hours. That’s a big thing and just [crosstalk 00:30:10]- Dr. Stanley: Those are the things that we need good, positive media about, too. Shaun Keating: Exactly. Dr. Stanley: Look at what a team of dentists can do, whether it’s surgery or endo or perio or GPs or aesthetic. You can really change someone’s life, and especially with orthognathic surgery, not only their profile, but their bite and their airway. These are [crosstalk 00:30:33]- Shaun Keating: Oh, totally. Dr. Stanley: Really important medical things that we do and I didn’t realize the importance of it and all the different opportunities that you can do in dentistry really until I met Dr. Magne because I didn’t realize that you could be, for example, a speaker or that you could be an entrepreneur outside of having a practice, which are both two things that I’ve done since I graduated. Shaun Keating: No kidding? Dr. Stanley: I thought every dentist works in a dental office all day. Shaun Keating: No, not really. Dr. Stanley: I know, and when I started speaking, it was just kind of fun at first. I didn’t realize you could have a career and then it just snowballed. For the last few years, I’ve done about 40 dates a year. It’s become another job for me, and now I have a recent startup as well where I’m using AI in dentistry to… It kind of goes back to the stress that we talked about to kind of mitigate a lot of the stress in dentistry. Shaun Keating: That’s awesome. No, we need it because when a dentist seeks treatment, is it pharmaceutical stuff they’re getting? Or what is it? What helps a dentist- Dr. Stanley: Yeah. Shaun Keating: The best do you think on… Obviously, medication maybe, but then that could be kind of a tough thing depending on what they’re taking and stuff like that. What kind of solutions do you have for some of the guys that are bluesy and just down and out? What are some of your comments on how to [crosstalk 00:32:16] better improve a person’s [crosstalk 00:32:18]- Dr. Stanley: Good question [crosstalk 00:32:18]- Shaun Keating: Situation? Dr. Stanley: I love… I think we need public awareness and acceptance of mental health issues- Shaun Keating: Exactly. Dr. Stanley: First of all. I think there’s still a big stigma with going to someone and saying, “I’m depressed”, or, “I have anxiety”, or, “I’m having panic attacks.” You’re still perceived as being weak and that’s not the case when you show how many people are having this. Shaun Keating: Oh, I know. Dr. Stanley: It’s almost the norm in dentistry, I hate to say that, but it’s almost the norm in our profession. I think we need positive media associations, we need litigation reform. So many dentists are actively fearful of being sued. I think we need debt reform because a lot of doctors are coming out of school with half a million dollars in debt. I’m one of them. Shaun Keating: No, stress and anxiety comes with that. When you think about that over and over, again [crosstalk 00:33:19] a lot of other fields are like that. They’re should be a Love Your Dentist Day and they should be pumped up about dentists. I’ve been doing this 35 years now and it’s always kind of been that way. I feel bad because I work with so many offices through the years and there’s some happy offices, a lot of them happy and just they get it. Some are stressful, but it’s just something… just me talking to you about it and seeing it, some of the stuff you do talk about, suicide, it just really brings up that even my mindset, the dentists it’s like pain, but then after you go to a dentist that is good, I don’t mind going to the dentist ever. I actually like going for my cleanings, even getting in, scraping by your gums and the sound, I think it feels good on my gums. I like it. It’s like, “Get in there”, but I was never [crosstalk 00:34:07]- Dr. Stanley: I was the same way [crosstalk 00:34:10]- Shaun Keating: That way before, and [crosstalk 00:34:10]- Dr. Stanley: I was the same way because my Dad was always my dentist, so I was never scared of him and I would… I remember being in high school and hearing a friend saying, “Oh, I got to go to the dentist today. I’m so scared.” I was like, “Wait, why are you afraid of the dentist?” I didn’t even get it, I didn’t even understand it. Shaun Keating: Exactly, because it’s perceived like you said in the media and all of the little TV shows, and now you got to go to the dentist. Dr. Stanley: I always had positive associations and that’s not to say that I didn’t have fillings and things when I was little. I probably have more cavities than many people, but I just wasn’t afraid of it. I think if we can start out early with our children, and I’m trying to do that now with my son, having positive experiences, going and playing with the air and shooting the water and knowing that people are getting their teeth cleaned and they’re getting their teeth worked on and just being exposed to it, I think that that really helps. Shaun Keating: I think so, too, and I think with the younger generation, I’m working with a lot of the newer dental students, 25, 30, 35, and I think they can change it. If we start really working on it now, it might not be for another 10, 15 years, but we can change the opinion of the public of how they perceive a dentist to be because it’s really… it shouldn’t be that way because anyone that’s practicing nowadays, they’re probably still some guys out there that probably can’t numb you up as good as some others, but I just think it should definitely be brought to the forefront to change how people feel about dentists. It should be a great feeling and not… Then again, say they worry [crosstalk 00:35:54] about the money and stuff, but [crosstalk 00:35:55]- Dr. Stanley: The average has definitely gotten higher because just technology has increased. Shaun Keating: Exactly, especially [crosstalk 00:36:01]- Dr. Stanley: Technology can really help both the patient and the doctor. For example, what we’re doing with my startup Pearl, we do AI, but one thing that we do is analyze dental radiographs, and so we can take… from the doctor’s side, we can remove a lot of the liability because you’re not going to miss anything. Shaun Keating: Exactly. Dr. Stanley: The AI will look at the radiograph and you’re not going to miss that carries on the distal of 19 or the bone marrow. Shaun Keating: It’s hidden behind it and you [crosstalk 00:36:34]- Dr. Stanley: But also [crosstalk 00:36:34]- Shaun Keating: Can’t really see that- Dr. Stanley: Exactly. Shaun Keating: Thing that’s going to bite you in the ass there, man. It’s like, I get that. No, I totally get that and I see how dentists are just so scared to do anything above and beyond because they’re worried about getting sued and I just think it’s practicing smarter and not harder and I think it could [crosstalk 00:36:55]- Dr. Stanley: Totally. Utilizing technology because technology can help to help with some of that stress. On the patient side, we have… The product that we have is called Second Opinion. It’s basically a built-in second opinion for patients because I know that patients are stressed out about going to the dentists and getting ripped off. Shaun Keating: Yes, exactly. Dr. Stanley: When you incorporate AI, you can have basically a second opinion with that one doctor [crosstalk 00:37:23] and it’s a third party will say based on thousands of doctors around the world, “We would agree with this diagnosis.” Shaun Keating: That’s perfect, but then again, you’re going to weed out all the knuckleheads that are doing things they shouldn’t be doing probably, so you’re going to have to [crosstalk 00:37:39]- Dr. Stanley: Exactly right, and that’s our goal is to really just bring the truth back to dentistry, both for the patient and the doctors. Shaun Keating: Wasn’t [crosstalk 00:37:50]- Dr. Stanley: Actually, we’re doing stuff for the lab side as well, so- Shaun Keating: Hey [crosstalk 00:37:56]- Dr. Stanley: They help you, too. Shaun Keating: I like doing some. I’m working on teeth, baby. They don’t feel any pain or nothing. No, it’s [crosstalk 00:38:03]- Dr. Stanley: That’s great. Shaun Keating: I hear you, and sometimes [crosstalk 00:38:05] you think, “I got this study models and I’m doing temps on. These teeth look pretty damn good, baby.” I’m cutting them all down and we’re capping them on. Dude. Dr. Stanley: What we’re doing with the lab side actually is we’re automating margin marking- Shaun Keating: Oh, okay. Dr. Stanley: And then we’re also doing something called Scan Clarity Score, which… so let’s say you get a hundred scans coming in from your doctors in a day. You could rank those scans based on how easily visible the margins are. Shaun Keating: Oh, we’d love that. Dr. Stanley: Let’s say you have Sally in your lab that is the best margin marker. You can give her all the difficult cases, and the ones that are easy, you can have them automatically marked by the AI. Shaun Keating: Yeah, that’s pretty [crosstalk 00:38:56]- Dr. Stanley: Then, with [inaudible 00:38:56] you can start ranking your doctors, and let’s say you have a doctor who always sends you crap. You could say, “Hey, for the last three months, your scores have all been low for us”, and maybe it takes you more time so you may have to raise your fees on that doctor or you may [crosstalk 00:39:15]- Shaun Keating: No, I hear you [crosstalk 00:39:15]- Dr. Stanley: You know? Shaun Keating: Dentists are real… Any lab, when you get dentist with a conventional impression, they start not looking the greatest, the quickest thing to lose a dentist is to tell them that, “You’re you kind of sucking”, but you don’t really do it that way. You try to work with them and help them, but it’s tough. Dr. Stanley: So true, and you can do it that way by saying, “We’ve had a hard time with some of your margins. We’d love to bring in”… Let’s say they’re using 3Shape or whatever. “We’d love to bring in a trainer or one of our team and just show you how we’re getting better results [crosstalk 00:39:52]- Shaun Keating: Oh, I know. Dr. Stanley: “It’ll help you so your margins look better over time and… Shaun Keating: Our guys that are digital, they’re our best guys with impressions. They get it and it [crosstalk 00:40:01]- Dr. Stanley: That’s good to hear. Shaun Keating: It really is because the machine won’t let you go to the next level. “No, this is not clear.” It’s like it’s kind of telling you before you can even send it out, and then when you send it out, we got to approve this and that and we’ll see things a certain way and it makes them practice smarter with all of that magnification. A lot of guys with conventional [crosstalk 00:40:21] impressions, man, they’re snapping that impression, sometimes it’s the girl snapping the impression, and sometimes they’re not doing any cord. They should be doing double cord. Sometimes they’re going in with that Expasyl crap and trying to blanch it away. It’s just nuts, but I sent some doctors to some other doctors, some big hitters that weren’t getting it and they came in for a day or two and worked on their impression taking. They kind of let their ego go and I paid my guys to go take the day off and go help them, and it helped so much. It just [crosstalk 00:40:54]- Dr. Stanley: That’s great to hear. Shaun Keating: It’s important because some of these guys have got everything, but the whole thing is fit, man. You got fit, function, and aesthetics. If I can’t get fit, I can’t work on the function, then I can’t get aesthetics. It’s just so important, but now with the digital scans, we’re getting the stuff that’s so fricking accurate and the doctors are excited because they’re seeing it. Heck, I just got this impression the other day, or just I got a model… My son is out in North Carolina living and he’s worked with me for years and his wife wanted to move back home, so I said, “Well, you can be our ambassador for Keating and go look at”… There’s like 2,000 dentists within 60 miles, like Virginia, North Carolina, and whatever. There’s three states and lots of doctors. Shaun Keating: He went out and the first day a dentist said, “Oh, sure. I’ll send you a digital scan.” I got it about an hour later and I’m looking at this thing and we went ahead and printed them out because we print our own models here and stuff. We have the carbon printers and we just love them and [crosstalk 00:41:57]- Dr. Stanley: Oh, nice. Shaun Keating: Oh, dude. We printed this out and you could just see the margin. It was a little bit subgingival, but kind of supragingival where it’s just right at the crest of the tissue, like perfect. Perfect like Schaffer margin and 360 degrees and it was like the most beautiful [crosstalk 00:42:13]- Dr. Stanley: Ideal. Shaun Keating: Prep and this dude was just out of nowhere just like that and now we’re starting to do work with this guy, but I get it every day with these guys. I’ve actually transferred some of my guys that do impressions. I’ve helped them out buying these scanners. It took them two, three months to get it down, but it was a lot of work and then getting [crosstalk 00:42:34]- Dr. Stanley: Yeah, well [crosstalk 00:42:34]- Shaun Keating: The people to work with them like you say [crosstalk 00:42:36]- Dr. Stanley: That’s interesting because what we see is when most people start using scanners, about 80% of the scans are poor because they’ve been doing traditional impressions for decades and the scanner doesn’t flow into the margin like traditional impressions do- Shaun Keating: Exactly. Dr. Stanley: Which is why you have to have someone that tells you how good your scan is- Shaun Keating: Exactly. Dr. Stanley: And you have to be able to look at it and see it because I know another thing that one of my mentors said is if you’re a bad analog dentist, you’re going to be a bad digital dentist, too. Just having technology doesn’t make you better. Shaun Keating: No, absolutely. We- Dr. Stanley: If you can learn how to utilize technology and understand it, though, you can really take your practice to the next level. Shaun Keating: You really can, and even too like with the patients like we’re going about trust with doctors. If you can get a patient into your practice and show them what digitally like… scan their mouth, their head is tilted to the side. You have those big old 20-inch screen or whatever you got. You’re rotating their mandible and maxillary around [crosstalk 00:43:48]- Dr. Stanley: Oh yeah [crosstalk 00:43:48] rotating is so cool. Shaun Keating: They’re so impressed and they just so… Like the old days with intraoral scanner, you got your TV up there. “Look at your amalgam and the cracks.” Kind of let them see, “Yes, we have to replace”, but with the digital part of it, it’s just with them now they really see it. It’s like AI. It’s like the 22nd century. It’s kind of crazy. It’s just unbelievable, and what it does [crosstalk 00:44:15]- Dr. Stanley: It shows [crosstalk 00:44:15]- Shaun Keating: It makes your practice better and it does take time, like you said, or 80% of them. Like I said, it takes a month, two, some guys a little bit longer and it takes some of the companies to bring in their top shots to help them because they’re just not getting a few of the tips, tricks right away. That’s kind of like with [crosstalk 00:44:35]- Dr. Stanley: Then, I think the problem there is that they send it to you and you got… you don’t see a margin. They said, “I just bought this $40,000 scanner [crosstalk 00:44:45]- Shaun Keating: Exactly. Dr. Stanley: “And I’m getting these crowns back that aren’t good because you can’t see margins.” You guys are just having to kind of estimate, and then they get it back and they’re complaining, so yeah [crosstalk 00:44:58]- Shaun Keating: We get it pretty quick [crosstalk 00:44:58]- Dr. Stanley: Once you get [crosstalk 00:44:58]- Shaun Keating: Though, with them. With our people with what we know, we can help them and plus they have manufacturers. It’s not as big as a learning curve because some guys 20 years of taking impressions, they still don’t get it, but two or three months, if you’re going to put your mind to it knowing that you paid all this money, it’s not like you paid 150 grand like on a CEREC or whatever. Those guys, a lot of those let it collect dust real quick and it’s just, “This is the scanner part just for the mouth and just for impression taking.” You can really… they got them now, this new TRIOS they got out, 3SHAPE, the wireless and all that, you can literally teach the janitor at your high school how to do it in about a minute and a half and how to scan it [crosstalk 00:45:41] but how you prep it is a whole nother… you still got to prep the damn tooth [crosstalk 00:45:44]- Dr. Stanley: A whole nother thing [crosstalk 00:45:47]- Shaun Keating: You know? Dr. Stanley: I know, it’s a whole nother thing. Shaun Keating: All those [crosstalk 00:45:48] sharp angles and all that shit. You can’t keep doing that, dude. You got to round off your angles, you got to get the proper, enough reduction, and on and on. It’s still you got to be a good dentist, but- Dr. Stanley: I think the problem when people transition over to the digital workflow is they’re still doing these like weird feather edges that are very difficult to pick up in the digital workflow. Difficult to pick up in any workflow, to be honest, when you have these really think feather edges, so learning how to prep super important. Shaun Keating: It is. I still get… I got a lot of old-time guys in their 60s, 70s still practicing dentistry and I still get a ton of these knife-edge margins, slice prep and knife edge and it’s fricking a. It’s like it’s tough but it’s tough with a PFM. You got three-tenths of metal, two-tenths of opaque, and then I got to bring a dentin body porcelain down there and I’m trying to get all this down [crosstalk 00:46:44]- Dr. Stanley: All down, yeah [crosstalk 00:46:45]- Shaun Keating: To a knife-edge finish and it’s just kind of like [crosstalk 00:46:48]- Dr. Stanley: You guys… the lab technicians in the world, and this is something that Dr. Magne first instilled into me is the lab technicians are so important. You can do the best prep, and if you don’t have a good lab technician- Shaun Keating: Oh yeah. Dr. Stanley: The patient doesn’t think you’re good. Shaun Keating: Oh, exactly. No, I hear you and then you got the guys that are kind of good, they got good preps, but then they’re sending it off to China [crosstalk 00:47:12]- Dr. Stanley: Oh, I know. Shaun Keating: Or whatever, trying to save 50 bucks and it’s like the doctor… it’s just behind the lips, it fits sort of thing. It shouldn’t be that way. It’s just… I don’t know. I think it’s a great thing what’s going forward with technology and everything else and I think… Man, our time flew by, dude. My guy is looking at me going, “Man, we’re almost at an hour.” We’ll have to have you on and some of the different speaking engagements that you do, different subjects. I know we touched base on the suicide and stuff, and that just… my hat goes off to all these dentists that are down and out and I hope they can get help. It’s tough, I mean it is tough, I know that, but you can’t… I just wish I could give better advice, it’s just I don’t see the patients all day. I work on models all day, but to see these patients [crosstalk 00:48:01]- Dr. Stanley: Well, no [crosstalk 00:48:01]- Shaun Keating: All day, it’s got to be [crosstalk 00:48:02] tough. It’s just… my heart goes out for them and I just… If you do have problems with it, we got notes and we’ll do in the show notes some of the different suicide prevention lines and numbers and stuff. There might be one person out there just listening to us and just might make a call and change his life [crosstalk 00:48:20]- Dr. Stanley: If anybody wants to reach out to me, feel free to reach out to me on Instagram. It’s just drkylestanley. I’m happy to talk to you about some of the stuff that I went through and that I’ve been lucky enough to talk to a lot of practitioners about. I appreciate you guys even allowing this topic to be on your podcast because that’s the first thing that needs to happen is focusing not every single time on clinical stuff. Shaun Keating: Exactly. No [crosstalk 00:48:52]- Dr. Stanley: Every [inaudible 00:48:52] we go to has had to become better at a prep or better at a margin or better at a material. You’re not going to be able to prep well if your mental health isn’t there. Shaun Keating: Exactly. No, we really got to… I think it would be good and seeing that I’m the sponsor of this show we could do whatever we want, but lately [crosstalk 00:49:10] we have done a little bit for how to consolidate your debt and help some of these guys that have all of this stress because [crosstalk 00:49:17]- Dr. Stanley: That’s really important [crosstalk 00:49:17]- Shaun Keating: Of all of this debt, and then also with lawyers we’ve had on to help with just doting your i’s and crossing your t’s properly and just practicing better and smarter, but I think this is a big thing. It’s always been one of the biggest things out there. Number one is suicide, job is dentistry, and it’s just too bad that [crosstalk 00:49:37] it has to be that way, but whatever we could do going forward, I’d like to help out in any way and make it a Love Your Dentist Day or Love Your Dentist Month and show love to your dentist. It’s hard to be on their end a lot. Shaun Keating: What happened way back in the ’60s and ’70s and ’80s or whatever with your family dentist, it’s not happening anymore. Everyone, there’s a lot of new dentists and they’re practicing better and the technology is better and it doesn’t hurt to go to a dentist. You should never feel any pain, very little if any, and it’s just like getting a vaccination shot. You don’t even feel that [crosstalk 00:50:14]- Dr. Stanley: That’s right. Shaun Keating: Nowadays with the different dentists out there, but no, my hat’s off for you for helping in this area. Dr. Stanley: Thanks so much. Shaun Keating: I appreciate you, man. God bless you and your family and I can’t thank you enough [crosstalk 00:50:27]- Dr. Stanley: Thank you very much. Shaun Keating: For coming on this podcast, buddy, but we’ll definitely have you for sure in the- Dr. Stanley: Yeah, let’s do it again. Shaun Keating: Dr. Stanley, you’re the man and I can’t thank you enough for coming on The Dental Up Podcast. Dr. Stanley: Thanks so much, Shaun. Really appreciate it. It’s been [crosstalk 00:50:41] a pleasure. Shaun Keating: All right, buddy. Thanks again. Host: Thanks for joining us on The Dental Up Podcast Show this week. Make sure to follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter, or search The Dental Up Podcast on iTunes for our weekly feed. Don’t forget to visit keatingdentallab.com/promo for exclusive offers. Keating Dental Lab is a full-service dental laboratory and we’re nationwide. We’d love for you to send us a case so we can show you the Keating difference. If you dig what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and we’ll be back next week.