Embracing Social Media and New Age Networking with Dr.Gabe Rosenthal DDS

Host: Ladies and gentlemen this is the Dental Up podcast brought to you by Keating Dental Lab of full service award-winning dental laboratory. Each week you’ll learn tips and techniques from a real world dentists bringing you in depth interviews, motivating stories, current events, and sports. Here’s your host, Shaun Keating.

Shaun Keating: Hey everyone Shaun here, welcome to another episode of the Dental Up Podcast. Our guest this week graduated from the USC School of Dentistry and he worked as a student dentist for the USC Sports Dental program. He’s an expert in cosmetic dentistry, Invisalign and CAD/CAM for the CADS Dental Group in Los Angeles, California. He’s also worked with many famous LA artists, musicians and athletes, making him the go to guy for any dental related services. Currently practicing from Los Angeles, California. Please welcome Dr Gabe Rosenthal DDS. How’s it going Dr Rosenthal?

Dr. Rosenthal: So far, so good. How about you?

Shaun Keating: Ah man, we’re doing great here. I’m a little sickers man starting to come down with a little bug, but, uh, he didn’t want them to labs sick, but a man, I’m glad to be alive, baby. It’s a beautiful day here and raining man. We’ve been having a lot of rain here the last few what, almost a week or so here and so we’re not used to that.

Dr. Rosenthal: This is our annual one week of rain.

Shaun Keating: Except at where you’re at, man, if you got a little bit of that smog rolls in about 3 or 4:00, it’s not that bad as it used to be back, I’ve kind of been here all my life.

Dr. Rosenthal: I’m used to the smog. It’s just part of my life. It always has been.

Shaun Keating: Yeah. Well, you’re out there in the middle of LB baby. That’s so cool. Well dude, I always like to start off a little bit about sports, man. What are you thinking about these Rams? They’re right there in your backyard and the Rams coming up and the Chiefs and we got the Saints and the Patriots. Anyone in particular like your teams out there?

Dr. Rosenthal: I love the Rams. It’s taken me a little bit to warm up to them. In 1993 or whenever they left, they ditched us.

Shaun Keating: Yes.

Dr. Rosenthal: Two years ago, they come back and you know, it’s a process, but I’m warming up to them and they have a bunch of USC Trojans on their team, so I definitely gravitate towards them.

Shaun Keating: That’s so awesome. I was the same way. We grew up with them. Heck, we grew up with the Rams back in the, I remember I was in Junior All American Peewee Football and in 1972 I got to meet Roman Gabriel and Jack Snow, Young Blood and all these guys is a little car dealership by our house and over on Honeybee. It’s called Sunset Ford. All these Rams players came in and they signed our little picture cards, or football cards, but you know, Rams fan ever since that. Then they left us and they did, they just packed up one night and George Rosenbloom or whatever sold out and left town. And then he died-

Dr. Rosenthal: I remember.

Shaun Keating: Then he died all of a sudden.

Dr. Rosenthal: I think I was at that last game, I think they were playing in Anaheim before they they left.

Shaun Keating: I think I was there too. Anaheim Stadium.

Dr. Rosenthal: Season ends, and they’re gone for 20 years.

Shaun Keating: Do you believe that? I just know how LA fans are fickle You gotta earn or you know, you guys are so spoiled with all the Lakers and I have some in the past, winners and when they came back, they didn’t look that good at all. It’s like what the heck. And like even with the Chargers now. Chargers are pretty damn good, but they got handled last week with the Patriots just destroyed them.

Dr. Rosenthal: We gravitate to the winners so they were winning, the Rams are still winning right now. That’s the team we all jump on the bandwagon.

Shaun Keating: Yeah. What a trip though. You’re a Trojan too. My brother, Kevin went to dental school at USC also, but probably a few years before you did. You’re just a youngster.

Dr. Rosenthal: It’s been great so far. I loved my time at USC. I got to work with students tennis for a lot of the players in the sports program, basketball, baseball, football, water polo. I think rowing, we had a few come in.

Shaun Keating: No kidding.

Dr. Rosenthal: That was kind of my introduction. I got to work with some of those people. It was non-paid. It was just to do our hours to graduate. I volunteered at that clinic and did my rotations there and I loved it.

Shaun Keating: That’s gonna stick with you and it has stuck with you since you did it. And that’s a neat thing. That’s so cool. Well, let’s go ahead and dental up now, doctor. At what point did you know, I want to be a dentist?

Dr. Rosenthal: So I went to UC San Diego Undergrad and I actually was a history major all set to graduate and go to law school and my goal was to actually be a sports agent. One of my neighbors growing up was actually still a friend of mine. He’s a big time sports agent and I’ve always looked up to him and I love with my sports, my love of sports, it seemed to make sense at the time. But then the more I shadowed and volunteered for different professions, I realized that wasn’t for me and I volunteered in a pre dental program where you get to work as an assistant in these underserved areas.

Shaun Keating: Okay.

Dr. Rosenthal: And I loved it right off the bat. I said, this is what I want to do. You use your brain, you use your hands, you use the art side, your creative side of your brain and you put it all together. And I loved it. I ended up getting my xray license while volunteering just so I could do a little bit more.

Shaun Keating: No kidding.

Dr. Rosenthal: We were kind of by the San Diego/Mexico border. So we had really a lot of people who needed help with dental work and maybe they would otherwise be unable to afford it. So I’d go out there and volunteer and I knew that it was for me. It actually took me a few more years to graduate because as a history major I had nothing towards the dental requirements to be pre dental. So I had to stay for about another year and a half just to get all the sciences.

Shaun Keating: You have to be a smart cookie to know all that stuff and to be able to switch over to that. I mean-

Dr. Rosenthal: No, it was a lot of work. But, sometimes in the middle of that journey you’re thinking, what am I doing?

Shaun Keating: Exactly.

Dr. Rosenthal: The end result is so sweet. It was all worth it. When you’re pre law, you want to just get good grades so you get into the law school that you want to go to. The first few history classes I took in college I did well. I think I got straight A’s in them, but I think I did it because it was so interesting. You just get so involved in the story and I said, you know what, I love this. I can get any degree to go into law school. Little did I know that I’d have to take all the sciences after trying to get around them once I switched to pre dental. I loved it. It was a great experience and the lessons you learn in history, you can definitely apply towards life nowadays too.

Shaun Keating: Oh absolutely. So dude, tell me, when you got out of school, tell me what happened. Did you only work as an associate? Tell me a little bit about your journey when you got out of school.

Dr. Rosenthal: I really don’t know how many other kids in the dental program thought this way, but I was a broke student and I was already married in dental school. Right off the bat, while I’m in dental school, I’d say right around year one or one and a half of dental school, I started building up my patient base because my goal was to come straight out of dental school and I wanted to have a busy schedule right away because I had to pay the bills and I had to pay rent and car payments on my leases.

Shaun Keating: Absolutely.

Dr. Rosenthal: What I did was I loved working with patients, so I’d go out into the local areas, the cities around USC and the rule was they would give you patients if you did not recruit, if you just said, you know what, you can feed me my patients. I’ll meet my minimal requirements and graduate. My goal was to build the practice right away. So I was already out at the local restaurants and markets and even at the synagogue and giving out my card saying, hey, come to the dental clinic, we’ll hook you up with some really good dental work at a lower price and it’ll be done by me. The goal was to build them up in dental school, then some of them I’d make them offers. Why don’t we finish the rest of this treatment plan? We did two crowns in dental school, but you need five more.
Let’s do those in private practice. I would try and take these people with me and even some athletes. Some athletes followed me from the USC clinic all the way to private practice. So I hit the ground running and modern dental offices, it’s like a rent share. So, I’m not really an associated more of an independent contractor, but you borrow space in a dental office and fill up the schedule.

Shaun Keating: Now are you still doing that same situation like that? Is that a Katz Dental, you’re with? Tell me a little bit about that? The Katz Dental Group.

Dr. Rosenthal: Katz Dental, it’s an older office in LA and I have access. I’m a lefthanded dentist and I’m the only one in the building that’s lefthanded.

Shaun Keating: That’s awesome.

Dr. Rosenthal: So I actually bought all the equipment in the, a three rooms in the back and I converted them. They are actually storage rooms and I converted them to dental operatories and even before my first paycheck was cashed, I needed the newest technology. So I bought the digital xrays and sensors. It’s an old building.

Shaun Keating: Okay.

Dr. Rosenthal: They were still using film and I also bought Cad Cam and I brought Invisalign and whitening to the office that they weren’t doing before. Veneers we brought to the office. They were just kind of a crown and bridge place and they had a one guy doing extractions and implants, but for the most. part I saw an opportunity where I can rent space out there and it’s a really easy dentist to get along with. Then I have the same thing in Encino. Encino is probably the office that you see filmed more. We have a really nice view. We’re on the 10th floor and really good Hollywood lighting. So when they film at TV show or a YouTube video, it’s almost always done in the Encino office because of that.

Shaun Keating: You were in Beverly Hills? Or is that the Encino? Is that the one?

Dr. Rosenthal: Yeah. The city office is in LA. It’s right next door to Fox Studios on Pico. We actually get a lot of the Fox crowd coming in, anywhere from the actors to the directors, to the sound guys, to the producers, the editors, the writers from Fox, but also just the local community at large. Then I’m in Encino, so it’s three days and three days. So I work light hours. Yeah, it’s a lot of work. Light hours on a Sunday.

Shaun Keating: Okay.

Dr. Rosenthal: We’ll usually go 8 to 1 on a Sunday. Then I have full day Monday, Tuesday on Pico and then in Encino. I’m full day Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.

Shaun Keating: You’re a worker bee. I love that. But you’re young, you need to do that and you’re crushing it. I know we’ve done a lot of different stars and players. We can’t really talk about a lot, but I mean, you’re right in the heart of it all and we’re Orange County. We’re about an hour from you guys. My hat’s off to you and I love it. I look forward to, because I do a lot of the bigs too and some sports and all that and I can’t really say some of them, some of them I do, but I kind of get excited with it. I always get pictures from them. Say “Sean, thanks for the teeth.” With the dentist we work in, obviously we work partners with you guys and with a bunch of different dentists that, through the years.
I get excited about it and I love it. Heck, I just seen a thing on the interweb here where this down and out dude in Kansas City man, this dude was like toothless and all. It’s kind of jacked up. He was just seeming kind of down on his luck living out of his truck, but he was on the side of the road and it was a snow storm. There was a KC game coming up and one of the players offense a lineman on number 73. I forgot his name, but he couldn’t get through. He needed some help and this homeless, he wasn’t homeless, but this down luck dude helped him get his car out of the snow and on the road to the game so he could play in the game last week.
So I guess the guy got reached out to by that player and now they got like 10 grand to help out and he had some broken windows and his car they have plastic, they’re getting that, and then it’s just neat when he can help people in need and then even people that just don’t have the means and it just means so much to me because I’ve been making teeth for a long time, but I just love it when you can help out some of the people and I’ve done it a lot through the years. It’s just kinda neat to see that kind of stuff.

Dr. Rosenthal: We definitely do some community outreach programs. We have a particular program that we work with where we actually do free dental work for Holocaust survivors. Aside from all the glitz and the glamour, we’re trying to help people that otherwise would not have access to dental care. So, there’s a program that we work with where, as long as they qualify for the program and they send these qualified patients who need dental work done, we’re glad to do it. We’re, we’re glad to just do some of our community service for them too.

Shaun Keating: I get really, really excited when it comes to that because these people, it just changes their lives. It changes anyone’s life when you redo their mouth and especially in the anterior cosmetic area, but just for function too and opposed to your quadrants and stuff. People haven’t eaten on the lower left quad in eight years becausevthey got some blown out teeth or some lightening rods as they bite down and it just to get people back into function is one thing. But also to bring back their self esteem and just a smile just goes so far for just confidence and everything else. It’s a great thing to give back when you can and good for you, man, and please let us know when we can help on those situations. When that stuff comes up, we’d love to help out. You know that.

Dr. Rosenthal: Yeah, no, I definitely know that. Thank you so much.

Shaun Keating: Dr Rosenthal, tell me a little bit about, what has been your marketing strategy? What do you do? Do you do social media? Are you working with the public sector? Tell me a little bit how you drive patients to your practice.

Dr. Rosenthal: That’s a great question. Basically, what happens is word of mouth, I still think at the end of the day, is probably the strongest form of marketing. But, in the last few years, social media has really taken over where, I was just having this discussion, where some businesses really know how to use social media to their advantage. In our office are our Facebook and our Instagram page, especially the Instagram page. We’re getting hundreds of thousands of views per month and people really seem to like it.

Shaun Keating: That’s huge. That’s so cool.

Dr. Rosenthal: You mentioned earlier, we have these youtube stars, you and I might not know who they are, but when they come in there are hundreds of millions of the younger generation and this to them is like the Beatles. They’re more excited to meet a youtube star. We have the Team 10 guys, they’re more excited to meet them then they would be to meet Tom Cruise.

Shaun Keating: Exactly.

Dr. Rosenthal: You can still do word of mouth, you can do flyers that come in the mail. But, for us, we’ve been featured in magazines, we’ve been in television, we’re in a lot of these YouTube videos and Instagram stories and Snapchat. It’s like a calling card. Someone famous comes in with 10, 15 million followers around the world and people see that this is their dentist. These people can go anywhere and they’re choosing Rosenthal Dental. They’re choosing to see Dr. Gabe and all of a sudden they’re Googling or they’re clicking on the map where our office is and they go, “Oh my God, that office that I just saw on TV or on YouTube or whatever, it’s two blocks away and they take our insurance. Let’s go to Dr Gabe.

Shaun Keating: Exactly.

Dr. Rosenthal: When a new patient comes in, at the end of the day, you still have to have a good practice. You can have the best marketing, but if you’re doing these really hideous horse teeth looking smiles or the crowns are breaking in four seconds. I don’t care how good your PR is, you still have to be a good dentist that people trust.

Shaun Keating: Oh, absolutely.

Dr. Rosenthal: That’s showbiz world is such a small world and everyone seems to know each other where you get one happy customer and they’ll post a photo or a story on their page and they’ll tag us and all of a sudden we’re exposing a whole new audience.

Shaun Keating: Oh, it’s so true. Even like you said, I’m 56 dude, I’ve been doing this for 35 years now and I didn’t really know, all my staff and my techs, they’re all younger. They’re younger me and my boys are probably older than you, but like you said, like me, I love Tom Cruise. I would drop to my knees and cry like a little teenage girl.

Dr. Rosenthal: You would start shaking. You’d be so nervous working on someone like that.

Shaun Keating: Oh, I know.

Dr. Rosenthal: We’ve had Academy Award winners and Grammy winners and they come in, and I’ll post a picture on Instagram and I’ll get maybe a few hundred clicks, but then you get these YouTubers and athletes and current musicians. They come in and all of a sudden we’re getting posts and reposts and comments and likes and all of that stuff because this is the audience that we’re catering to.

Shaun Keating: Exactly.

Dr. Rosenthal: You get a reality TV star and they’ll give me more clicks than a Grammy Award winner sometimes. Someone who might have won an award in 1994. I still think they’re incredible. I mean, I treat all the patients the same. I don’t care who you are, but click-wise and results-wise, they’re not getting the same amount of clicks. The market’s really changed.

Shaun Keating: It is, it’s a trap and it’s hard with social media getting into work. But it does, when you get stars that have such a big following, you’ve got 100,000 people that view it. You might get 5 or 10 patients. That one patient might be $10,000, $20,000, you just don’t know. But you got to get your name out. I have doctors here in Irvine, California of all places, I’ve got about 250,000 people and I’ve been here for all my career and there are dentists that don’t even know that I exist and I did mailers to all of them, but a lot of doctors don’t look at mailers.
A lot of doctors don’t look at their dental journals anymore. A lot of the letters can’t get past the front desk and it’s frickin’ harder than heck to get your name out there. But look at you, you guys are known everywhere. I have my whole staff, I got a bunch of employees here when cases coming from your thing and there are YouTube guys they’re all, “Look at this we know it.” It’s just like, they get all excited. Dude, who are these people? But, that’s these youth. The youth nation.

Dr. Rosenthal: With Keating, we had one case we worked on together. There was a YouTube boxing match and some of the work that we did together on the mouth guards was seen by probably 30, 40 million people easily.

Shaun Keating: I love it man. I love just the different doctors and different areas. I got certain guys with certain teams and sports and certain areas. I got you out in LA. It’s kind of neat. You guys are on social media stuff. We gotta get our dentists out there because they’re always looking for how to grow their practice. And 99 percent of the best marketing out there is word of mouth, but then again, now lot of people aren’t really doing the social media to the full extent of what it can be done. It’s hard. It’s hard to find your niche and hard to get it out there unless you’ve got all these superstars and stuff.

Dr. Rosenthal: We do. We’re really lucky that we get these stars and influencers and everything, but it’s not the only way to go. For us, it works. For someone else it might not work. If you’re a crown and bridge place, and your audience is looking for a cad cam scan or something like that, same day crown and you don’t have that technology then it might not be that, you can always do word of mouth or Google ads. But for us with the audience that we’re catering to the people who want the latest and the greatest technology and quality. It really works well for us. I mean, people stopped me on the street. They say, “Oh, are you Dr. Gabe?” Two, three years ago I would have thought that that was crazy.

Shaun Keating: And look at it now.

Dr. Rosenthal: People recognize or they recognize our brand, so to speak. When you’re doing a case like this and if you have a high profile patient and they’re happy and they’re smiling, that’s your business card right there.

Shaun Keating: Absolutely, dude.

Dr. Rosenthal: People see that smile on tv or they see it online. They go, “Oh, that’s Dr. Gabe’s work. It looks pretty good, doesn’t it?”

Shaun Keating: Yeah, that’s so cool.

Dr. Rosenthal: That’s when it really pays off.

Shaun Keating: That’s it. We’re going to have to get you on the TMZ a link where they’re bringing the bus by your place and then I’ll have to get you and Harvey saying, “We’ve got Dr. Gabe on the line with Shaun Keating, the number one dental lab and the number one-” No, that’s funny dude.

Dr. Rosenthal: One smile at a time. We’ll get there in due time. That’s for sure.

Shaun Keating: That’s it, baby. That’s what I’m saying. Everything’s going to happen for when it happens and it’s not on your time, it’s on his time, but it will happen, but no, that’s so cool dude.

Dr. Rosenthal: That’s right.

Shaun Keating: What do you do for dental conventions or gatherings? Do you do much for your CE and where do you go? What shows do you do or don’t do?

Dr. Rosenthal: So CEs, I usually do the nighttime courses. Right now we’ve been so busy with these big time case, people are coming in for full mouth makeovers and these, in addition to just the regular practice, I’ve been slammed. I do a lot of online courses just to get my non-live courses. You ask your dentist friends with that means. For the courses, if there’s some interesting new technology I want to learn, they usually give you some credits for that. So any time some cool new technology that I can’t live without, any time it’s available I’ll take the course, I’ll get the units. I do the online courses when I can, just because I don’t know if I have as much time as I used to. To go to the CDA or the ADA, when I was first starting, I had all this free time. I’d take tons of courses. Now it’s a lot of continuing education at home. I always need to know what’s going on in the dental world, whether there’s a breakthrough in science or something new with technology. We just bought another 3D scanner. It’s our third 3D scanner for the office making impression material almost completely obsolete.

Shaun Keating: That’s so cool.

Dr. Rosenthal: I had to have it once I read up on it and you take the course, you get the credits. If there’s anything that ever piques my interest, I’m going to take the CE course, a continuing education course, but quite frankly, I’ve been slacking on the conventions lately. For me to take off three, four days from the practice, I just don’t know. I don’t know if I can do it. I have a pretty demanding patient base and they need me 24/7. I’m answering emails, Facebook messages, phone calls, you name it. I’m pretty easy to reach and people just need me at all times, so it’s been really tough to take off time If things ever settle down or if there’s ever a course that I can’t live without, that I have to take, I’ll take off time and I’ll get my credits that way.

Shaun Keating: Absolutely. Do what you’re doing. You’re working six days a week, dude. You’re pushing it right now. You need to, you’re young man, push it harder. You’re 40, 45. [crosstalk]

Dr. Rosenthal: I’m young, I have the energy. I’m doing all this now and my patients will always be my patients. I’ll never be too big for any of my patients, but there’s just such a demand right now and I’m really, really blessed and I can’t let my patients down by taking off four or five days at a time here and there. It’s just not gonna happen.

Shaun Keating: Good for you. Yeah. You’ll have plenty of time in the future man. But yeah, keep doing that. Tell me on your scanners, what scanners you got rolling at the practice? Which ones you like? Which ones you like better than the others?

Dr. Rosenthal: The first scanner we bought, it’s a dinosaur now. You’re gonna laugh when I say it, but the Serac Red Cam.

Shaun Keating: Okay. Now we all got in the closet.

Dr. Rosenthal: I still use the mill, the 3D printer that’s attached to it, but the Serac Red Cam was the first one I bought. I had no money out of grad school. I had to finance it and that thing is such a dinosaur now. But I had that with the compact mill, which is still a good mill. It’s still makes really good crowns, but the camera itself is a little bit outdated.I also have the Serac Omni Cam, which is the most advanced a crown camera that Serac makes. It’s a 3D scan in full color and it makes some beautiful crowns, veneers, bridges, for the people who want the scans on the spot. Otherwise we can email the file and send it to a lab and have them make it for us. We just bought the Itero Scan. It’s actually in the mail. I was told it’s shipping today.

Shaun Keating: Oh, you’re gonna love that. You better start sending some of those scans. You better send me pictures, we’re gonna do some-

Dr. Rosenthal: [crosstalk] The Itero’s the full mouth scans. Even the night guards, now I won’t need impression material anymore.

Shaun Keating: You’re going to love it. It’ll be night and day. It’s a neat thing. I love these scans we’re getting from our dentist and just making our job so easy and it’s so fricking accurate. It’s just there’s no warping and no shrinkage of the materials anymore and it’s just so spot on and we’re just loving it.

Dr. Rosenthal: When you scan the tooth directly, there’s just nothing that gets lost. No detail gets distorted when you have the scan right in front of you. So you can see the model in 3D, it’s incredibly accurate. And we have the MCXL mill, which is that staffed milling device. So if someone can’t wait the two or three weeks or if they want to same day crown without having to leave with a temporary and we have the MCXL mill as well.

Shaun Keating: You got it all covered, all angles. I think we’ve got room for one more question because I know you got to get back to work. You only have a half an hour, but what are some of the dos and don’ts you could tell some of the newer dentists starting off? Just some advice for some of our newer students that are just getting started, telling me a little bit about it.

Dr. Rosenthal: I love that question. That’s a great question. The do’s and the don’ts. It’s okay to learn from your mistakes. You learn from your mistakes and definitely make sure you perfect the craft and it’s a funny don’t, but you’re not going to grow overnight. It just doesn’t happen where you come out of dental school and you have 15,000 veneers done in one year. I mean, just keep doing what you’re doing and if there’s ever a work that you do that looks good, you can show it, but quite frankly, if your skills aren’t there yet and it takes time to learn how to be a good dentist, you don’t need to show the whole world your first ever veneer case.
In a weird way it’s going to hurt your practice in the long run because once something’s out there on social media, it’s there forever, so if you’re doing these, really just horsey looking bulky veneers because you don’t know any better or you think they look great, but your eye hasn’t been trained. You don’t need to show the whole world. I didn’t post my cases until at least three, four years out of out of dental school because even if I thought it was a great case, once it’s out there, people are going to judge it. You know, these, these digital websites take my work, core whitening, dental mentor and all these other sites take my work and they, they repost it and I’ve seen some new dentist posts their work and they get trashed left and right.
Definitely show your quality cases. Not the quantity, just because you just did a whitening and they got half a shade brighter. You don’t need to show the world that are, you know, one guy chipped a tooth and you just filed it down and that’s not a before and after. That’s not gonna help you grow your business. When you’re ready and your work is pristine, you can go ahead and show it to the world, but you got to be a tough critic of your own work too. That’s one way to get better.

Shaun Keating: Dr Rosenthal, man, I can’t thank you enough. I know you’re so busy and I know you’ve got to get back. They’re calling on you in the back room. I can hear them. Again, thank you so much. We appreciate all the work and if there’s anything we can do, please let us know. God bless you and your family and we’ll talk to you real soon.

Dr. Rosenthal: Alright, well listen, Sean, thank you so much for having me. That was a lot of fun and keep up the great work. I look forward to working with you in the future.

Shaun Keating: Alright, thanks again.

Dr. Rosenthal: All the best.

Shaun Keating: Alright. Bye bye.

Host: Thanks for joining us on the Dental Up podcast show this week. Make sure to follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter or search the Dental Up podcast on iTunes for our weekly feed. Don’t forget to visit keatingdentallab.com/promo for exclusive offers. Keating Dental Lab is a full service dental laboratory and we’re nationwide. We’d love for you to send us a case and we can show you the Keating difference. If you dig what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and we’ll be back next week.