Extractions and Dentures

Extractions and Dentures

| Shaun Keating CDT + Dr. Ryan Mccall DDS |

Dr. Ryan Mccall of Mccall Dentures is a young passionate dentist who loves making dentures and has been at it for over a decade. Although Dr. Mccall doesn’t call himself a prosthodontist, he drastically changes lives daily practicing on many patients who have not seen the dentist in over 20 years. Dr. Mccall posts all of his before/after work all over social media including Dentaltown, Facebook and Instagram. Ryan explains how 98% of his patients come directly from the power of social media and targeted advertisements through Facebook Ads Manager.

http://www.mccalldentures.com https://www.instagram.com/mccall_dentures/ https://www.facebook.com/IndyDentures https://www.instagram.com/keatingdentallab/

Full Transcription:

Shaun Keating: Today, we have a special guest joining us this week. He’s a passionate dentist who loves making dentures, and has been at it for over a decade. Practicing dentistry and operating two practices, and one dental lab, in Indianapolis, Indiana, please welcome Dr. Ryan McCall, DDS. How’s it going, Dr. McCall? Dr. Ryan McCall: Good. What’s up, Keats? How are you, buddy? Shaun Keating: It’s so good to talk to you, dude. I’ve seen you forever on Dentaltown. I’ve never talked to, actually. Dr. Ryan McCall: I know, and we played fantasy football together. Shaun Keating: You always set up that fantasy from way back. Kind of ran it forever. I just kind of get in there and sponsor. I got my operations manager here, Patrick Ramsey … He sets up my team a lot because you got to really read up on who’s what. It’s a crapshoot with that fantasy stuff. It’s so tough. We always have like 12, 14 teams. Once you get one injury, dude, you’re screwed. It’s so tough. But good times with that, dude. And I thank you for all of your organization through all the years, and doing that. Kind of a neat thing you’ve done there. You’re a big sports guy. I know you’re a big athlete. I know you’re a big cycling guy. You did a lot of bike riding. Kind of like the Le Mans type. What’s it called? Dr. Ryan McCall: Tour de France. God, no. I wasn’t that good. Have you seen Breaking Away, the movie? Shaun Keating: No. Never saw that. Dr. Ryan McCall: About the bike race. We raced in college, but I wasn’t nearly as good as Lance Armstrong. Shaun Keating: Where’d you go to college? Tell me a little bit about that. Dr. Ryan McCall: I went to IU, for undergrad. In Bloomington. They’ve got a big bike race every year. It’s call The Little 500. They do these fixed-gear bicycles on cinder track. They made a movie about it a long time ago. It won an Oscar, I believe. Shaun Keating: No kidding. Dr. Ryan McCall: Check that out, man. I think it’s on Netflix. I’ll send you the link. Shaun Keating: Yeah! I’ll have to check that out. Dr. Ryan McCall: It’s a classic. You’ll love it. It’s awesome. Shaun Keating: You went where Hoosiers … The Indiana basketball … Dr. Ryan McCall: Yeah, buddy. Shaun Keating: Dude. What a basketball Mecca there, huh? (laughs) They haven’t been competing in a while, dude. Dr. Ryan McCall: I know. We should have hired Alford. Are you a UCLA guy? Shaun Keating: I really love their basketball. Grew up with it. Even way back in the day with Walton and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. It kind of dates me, man. I’m much older than you. You’re just a young puppy, man. But I like UCLA basketball and USC football. My brother went to USC so I’ve always been into that. Dr. Ryan McCall: That’s awesome. Shaun Keating: Tell me a little bit about your sports, football-wise. I know you’re a big Colts guy. Dr. Ryan McCall: They’re terrible. Andrew Luck got into it with Jim Irsay, the other day. It’s just not a good situation. They’re probably the worst team in the league, unfortunately. Shaun Keating: He’s such a stud quarterback. A little bit injured lately. Now, Irsay. He’s the owner, right? Dr. Ryan McCall: Yeah. Shaun Keating: What’s he getting all into it with his … Dr. Ryan McCall: He’s on Twitter a lot, kind of like the president. Shaun Keating: Ah, geez. Dr. Ryan McCall: Yeah. Shaun Keating: You got to get off those tweets, man. (laughs) Dr. Ryan McCall: That’s what I’m saying. You have to have aliases for that sort of thing. Shaun Keating: Oh, I bet. You’re so social media savvy. Heck, I remember, way back in the day, on Dentaltown … You’re a monster on there. You got like 40 thousand posts. Also, hey, congratulations, dude. We’re sitting here, like, Monday, and we get my mail in. I got my son, he’s my marketing director, and Eric helps with all my social media and stuff. He said, “Look at that guy, right there. Ryan McCall. He’s on the front of Dentaltown.” I said, “I know that dude!” (laughs) Congratulations. Dr. Ryan McCall: Thank you. Shaun Keating: That’s so cool, man. Dr. Ryan McCall: It’s been really cool. Shaun Keating: What a great story. It’s quite an honor to be picked for that. You really touched a lot of lives, when it comes to dentistry on Dentaltown. You have one of the biggest threads ever. It’s all on dentures. What do you got on that? How many views? Like 40, 50 thousand. 100 thousand. Something crazy. Dr. Ryan McCall: They created, like, a secret forum for me so I’d stop posting so much. Shaun Keating: (laughs) Dr. Ryan McCall: It’s like a hidden blog, man. All my old school friends who we post a lot on there. Shaun Keating: That’s cool. You just put it up there. You put up the patients that come in. It’s like nuts and bolts. Dr. Ryan McCall: I sucked at first, too. I got slammed pretty hard by some lab techs. It’s always the labs fault, I think. Shaun Keating: (laughs) Dr. Ryan McCall: I’m a dentist, so … Shaun Keating: Yeah. We hear that all the time. Dr. Ryan McCall: Blame the lab. Shaun Keating: Blame the lab, man. You can really bitch at the dentist, otherwise they’re like, “Screw you, man. I get solicited by 50 labs a week. This guy can do it cheaper.” It’s like, “Ah, man.” I’ve been through that so long. We try to figure out … Dr. Ryan McCall: How is the lab business? Shaun Keating: For us, it’s pretty darn great. We’re so blessed here, and we’re so thankful. There’s a lot of labs out there that are probably having a tough time. But we push the envelope here with our marketing. It’s just so hard to figure out the dentists and break that nut on how to get them to try it. Everything kind of went to a price point for a while because of a lot of dentists not seeing as many patients. But it’s getting back to where they’re looking for value. They’re also looking for experience and what we can do, a lab can do, to help a dentist practice better. That’s what we’re trying to set ourselves apart, a little bit, with continuing education at the lab, seminars. We’re doing these podcasts to reach out with our existing accounts, kind of show what they’re doing. A lot of my guys are older guys. I’ve got a lot of new young dentists coming onboard. It’s really kind of neat. It kind of brought some new life to us, with the digital revolution, going in the dental lab industry. I have my sons here. I have this little geeky, nerd dude right here with my podcast: Eric. Dr. Ryan McCall: Is Eric a nerd? Shaun Keating: Yeah. He’s kind of nerdy. But that’s good, isn’t it? Dr. Ryan McCall: He’s nice. Shaun Keating: He’s smart as heck. He’s sharp as a tack. Dr. Ryan McCall: I talked to him on Instagram. I was like, “You got the dream job, man.” Shaun Keating: He came out of nowhere, too. It’s a different thing out there, going forward. I’m kind of an old analog dinosaur. Dr. Ryan McCall: You got Travis, though, man. How’s he doing? Shaun Keating: Travis! If I can get my boy’s butt in here. Work … Dr. Ryan McCall: He’s been on the podcast, man. Tell him I said hi. Shaun Keating: I will. They said they had a blast with you at Vegas, for that fantasy football. That was good times for him. I’m glad I didn’t go. I would’ve got in trouble, man. My wife … That’s the reason I been married all these years, because I don’t go by myself to those meetings. Dr. Ryan McCall: You’re smart, yeah. It’s not even worth it. Shaun Keating: I’d be burning it to the ground. Everything that stayed in Vegas, with me it’d come back. It’d be all over. Dr. Ryan McCall: They were so nice, though. I think you guys are doing it the right way. Shaun Keating: We’re trying, man. Dr. Ryan McCall: I think it’s cool. You got a family business, too. You all are doing well. You haven’t sold out to a Chinese lab yet. Shaun Keating: (laughs) No kidding. Dr. Ryan McCall: Support Keating! Shaun Keating: It’s a trip, man. I just showed Eric, I got two more things, today. These venture capitalists, all these guys are buying up the labs. They’re going to make it all corporate or something. Albensi. They’ve been for like 40 years. Dr. Ryan McCall: Where are they? Shaun Keating: Pittsburgh, I think. They just sold out to National Dent Techs. That came out a couple weeks ago. I don’t know. It’s kind of sad in a way. But we’re our own lab. We’re a private, family lab, and we’re going to stay that way. I want to try to keep it going. I told my son, our oldest son, Kyle … We’re having our first grandchild in December, here, coming up. Dr. Ryan McCall: Oh! Congrats! Shaun Keating: Yeah. Thanks. It’s a boy. We already know: it’s a boy. His name is Wells. That’s kind of a different name. His wife’s from North Carolina. I guess that’s a name from back there. I already told my two sons, “You know what? You guys aren’t getting nothing. Everything is going to my grandson.” I haven’t even met him yet. Dr. Ryan McCall: You going to get him Rams gear? Shaun Keating: (laughs) Dr. Ryan McCall: Todd Gurley jersey. That’s what I’ll get him. Shaun Keating: I got a Gurley jersey I wear every time. Rams. Look at those guys, man. Can you believe that? I remember last year everybody gave me shit about the Rams. I’m like, “It’s going to take two, three years.” I was always a Rams fan, growing up. I used to bring my boys when they played at Anaheim Stadium. Dr. Ryan McCall: Did you really? Shaun Keating: We’d go watch Eric Dickerson. Yeah! Dr. Ryan McCall: Cool. Shaun Keating: It was awesome. Then they left for 21 years. I never really even liked to watch them. I was like one of those disgruntled fans. Now they’re back in open arms. I’m not going to go to the Coliseum. I got tickets coming on that new stadium. Dr. Ryan McCall: Oh, you do? Shaun Keating: I’m in line to pay. It’s stupid. There’s a seat license, or something they have to buy. A medallion thing for each thing. It’s like 60 grand for a really good one, for each seat. It’s stupid! Dr. Ryan McCall: Yet Keats has three hours. Shaun Keating: Yeah. Exactly. We do that by 9:00 in the morning. Dr. Ryan McCall: You got to get a suite, man. Shaun Keating: I was looking at them, but they’re like 400 or 600 grand a year. There’s got to be an ROI on everything, if you’re going to do that much of a thing. Dr. Ryan McCall: You’re like, “I’m not stupid.” Shaun Keating: Yeah. I always say, “I might be dumb, but I’m not stupid.” If you got really big corporate and made a ton of money, yeah. But for us, I just want to get like six seats. It’s me, the wife, both the sons, and they can bring their wives. If they don’t go with their wives, they could give them to some dentists. Dr. Ryan McCall: For sure. Shaun Keating: I just want, that 50 yard line, the last six seats on the edge of the row. Dr. Ryan McCall: I’m jealous. Shaun Keating: It’s just the best of the best. Then again, those suites, you got your own bathroom there. Once I start throwing back those beers, I got to get up every 20 minutes. Dr. Ryan McCall: It’s a struggle. Shaun Keating: (laughs) It’s a struggle. Dr. Ryan McCall: [inaudible 00:10:54] Shaun Keating: That’s crazy. It’s a good thing. The coliseum … it’s beautify, but the seats are horrible. It’s so big. It’s so outdated. Dr. Ryan McCall: Where’s the new place? Shaun Keating: Come again. Dr. Ryan McCall: Where’s the new place? Shaun Keating: It’s in Inglewood. Right over by The Forum. It’s going to be pretty neat, man. Dr. Ryan McCall: I saw the plans for it. It looked sick. Shaun Keating: It’s like three billion dollars. It’ll be like going to Disneyland. It’s going to have such a big, open space of restaurants. It’s a destination where you got hotels. You’re going to stay there for the night. It’s going to take us two hours to drive home, back to Orange County. After all day doing that, I’m not into … Maybe get a helicopter. Dr. Ryan McCall: Two hours? Shaun Keating: Yeah. Two hours? I ain’t into that, dude. Dr. Ryan McCall: You can’t take your yacht? You can’t just fly out there to the yacht real quick. Shaun Keating: No. I got about 30 miles to the ocean. 20 off the side. It might be sound. We could take the old Shannon Rose down to Redondo Beach or something. We’ll figure that out. Dr. Ryan McCall: Right on. That’s so LA, though. You’re like, “Oh my god! I got to drive two hours!” Shaun Keating: I know. It’s only 20 miles. It’s just so much freaking traffic, dude. It sucks. Dr. Ryan McCall: I was out there a couple months ago. It is not Indiana. Shaun Keating: I can only imagine what Indiana … Dr. Ryan McCall: Opposite of Indiana. Shaun Keating: (laughs) That’s such a trip. I don’t go to LA. We’re in Orange County. We’re about an hour into Staples and stuff. The only time I go to LA is to go to the Lakers and … Just don’t do a lot of the Beverly Hills or any of that whole tourist thing. I’ve lived here all my life, and it’s just … I don’t know. I like Orange County. It’s kind of neat. Then you go the other way and you’re an hour to San Diego. Or you go an hour the other way, you’re up in the mountains. You got Big Bear and all the snow. Kind of neat little area, there. You go out to Coachella, to Palm Springs and the desert. Kind of cool, man. Kind of cool. Dr. Ryan McCall: The struggle. Shaun Keating: (laughs) Dr. Ryan McCall: We got the corn. Then there’s more corn. But I’m loving Indiana. I liked LA. I stayed downtown. I was there for like a Instagram conference. It was really cool. It was at this place called Hedley and Bennett. They make custom, high-end chef aprons. They invited us. I was definitely the only dentist there. It was a bunch of smaller businesses that are using Instagram and stuff. It was really cool. Shaun Keating: No kidding. How you doing on Instagram? We’re doing pretty good. We got almost like 30 thousand guys. Don’t we, Eric? On Instagram? Dr. Ryan McCall: You do? My man! Way to go, Eric. Shaun Keating: I’m like how the heck can we do this? He’s like, “We just do pictures of dentistry.” Dr. Ryan McCall: I told him yesterday, his stuff looks really nice. Especially on Instagram Live. He’s a good photographer. Shaun Keating: It’s kind of a trip. None of it is resonating into getting new … Dr. Ryan McCall: Oh, really? Shaun Keating: A little bit. We get some stuff here and there. Dr. Ryan McCall: Do you need somebody to help you convert that, Keats? Shaun Keating: Yeah. We do. Dr. Ryan McCall: I know a guy. (laughs) Shaun Keating: We need some closers. Again, how do you close a dentist with a lab? You can’t be like a car [crosstalk 00:14:08] Dr. Ryan McCall: You’re not selling dentures. If I can do dentures, I can do anything. Shaun Keating: You know what? What you’re doing, dude, is a great little niche. You have a practice limited to freaking removable. I think it’s a neat thing. I had a Dr. Feffer, who’s been on with me for 25, 30 years. He did the same thing about 10 years ago. He opened up a little lab in his dental practice down in San Diego. He’s just thriving with it. Got a couple old-time guys setting his teeth. A lot of dentists don’t think they can make any money off dentures. “I’m going to charge two thousand bucks. I’m going to give two or three hundred bucks to the lab. But my time … Got to see this patient three, four times.” This and that. They don’t like to do it. I tell you, man. It’s one of the fastest growing. There’s a lot of people out there that need dentures and a couple of implants and lock-and-load, or locators, like you’re doing. No, dude. I think you’re doing a great thing. It’s something that not many people are doing. From what I hear, you’re just crushing it out there. Good for you. Dr. Ryan McCall: They’re not even really teaching it in dental schools anymore, though. I interviewed a bunch of new grads last year. Most of them had never done an immediate lower denture. So they’re not even teaching it, anymore. Shaun Keating: Even in dental technology, when I went to a dental technology school back in the early 80s, they were phasing it out then. Everything was fixed. Everything’s fixed. I remember, man, me and my best-friend Chris, Chris Crayson … Since first grade, he’s my best buddy, lived on my next block. When we got out of high school … because my brother was in dentistry when we were in junior and high school. He was going to be a dentist and apprenticing at a couple different places. He’d make our mouthpieces for football. We always knew we were going to be dental technicians. In eighth grade, I knew I was going to be a dental tech because my brother was going to be a dentist. He was going to send me all his lab work. Low and behold, man, I’m ready to graduate from my class. My buddy Chris was so good that he was actually doing lab work for the lab guy that was running this. He had his own private lab. So he was doing work while he was in school learning with me. With me, I had like hands of stone, dude. I sucked so bad. Dr. Ryan McCall: Were you a bad lab tech? Shaun Keating: Oh yeah! Horrible. Dr. Ryan McCall: Okay. Cool. Shaun Keating: I remember the doc, the head instructor, brought me up. It was like two days before graduation. He goes, “Shaun, you know what, man? I’m not sure with you and fixed. I think what you might should do is maybe go to removable and start doing dentures.” I’m like, “What? Heck no! My brother’s a dentist. I want to be working for him.” Sure enough, they graduated me. They get the money from … The state, actually, paid for it. My mom … Six kids, single mom, no money. We qualified for this grant. They wanted the money. Sure enough, I get out and my brother tells me, “Shaun, I’m going into endodontics. You’re on your own.” I’m like, “What the heck?” Dr. Ryan McCall: Not my problem. Shaun Keating: Yeah. Now, he looks at his little brother and goes, “Man, you leave and go on vacation for a week, and everyone’s doing the work still. I leave for vacation on a week and I don’t make no money.” When the dentist leaves, there’s no one making it. When I leave, I got a hundred people sitting there making teeth. I love it. I never thought about it then. Now, as I reflect, it’s like, “Thank you, Lord, for putting me on this track.” Dr. Ryan McCall: But you take care of your people, you know. Shaun Keating: Yeah. Dr. Ryan McCall: They stick with you because you’re a good dude. Shaun Keating: It’s like in anything. Got to take care of your people, baby. Just like you. You take care of yours. I see your staff. You got a big staff. You’re just a laid-back, good guy. Ryan, let’s dental up now a little bit. Dr. Ryan McCall: Ah! Now we have to talk about dentistry? Shaun Keating: (laughs) Yeah. I could talk about sports. I didn’t even get into basketball or baseball or anything. Dr. Ryan McCall: Me too. I’m going to go ahead and end this podcast. Shaun Keating: (laughs) We’re 20 minutes in. We got to get them 20 more minutes of meat, dude. Okay? Dr. Ryan McCall: All right, brother. Hit it. Shaun Keating: All right. Tell me: why did you get into dentistry? At what point did you think, “I want to be a dentist”? Dr. Ryan McCall: I wanted to be a pediatrician when I was younger. I shadowed with my pediatrician, back home, for a while. This was in undergrad. Then I shadowed with my family dentist. It was a no-brainer. I’m so glad I’m not a pediatrician. Shaun Keating: Man, that’d be tough [crosstalk 00:18:49] Dr. Ryan McCall: Those were my two options. I thought about going into pedo, too, when I was in dental school. Now that I have four kids, there’s just no way. Shaun Keating: Yeah. Four kids, huh? Dr. Ryan McCall: I can’t imagine. Shaun Keating: Boys? Dr. Ryan McCall: Your mom had six! Shaun Keating: Yeah, six. Dr. Ryan McCall: And raised them all by herself? Shaun Keating: Yeah. I got four brothers. I’m the youngest of four. Then two younger sisters. They got divorced after 17 years. I was like five. My mom moved us out to California, thank God. We were Navy brats, so we were everywhere. But yeah. Things happen for a reason. It worked out because I was born in Puerto Rico, man. I went there a couple years back. I’m thinking, “Thank God I got off this island,” because it kind of reminds of Tijuana in some areas. It’s like 500 years old there, and it seems like it. We had some Ritz Carlton place. We were at the nicest place. It was kind of nice. But I was thinking, “I went from this ocean coast right here over to the beach.” It’s just weird how things happen. Dr. Ryan McCall: I know. It does. That’s kind of how I fell into dentures, too. I never thought I’d be back in Indiana. After I graduated from dental school, we moved to Colorado and lived in Durango for a year. It was awesome. I worked for a guy who was doing same-day dentures. I hated it because he was doing a mush bite. He would just slap [inaudible 00:20:09] and it’s in and getting them the hell out of there. But I made a fortune. Shaun Keating: (laughs) Dr. Ryan McCall: I was like, “There has to be a better way.” I looked for a practice on The Front Range, a little bit closer to home, closer to Denver. I looked at like 20 different practices before we finally found the one we bought. It was a 72 year old dentist who only did replacement dentures. Shaun Keating: No kidding. Dr. Ryan McCall: Yeah. He had his own lab and two full-time lab techs. They were still using paper charts. We’re talking super old school. Shaun Keating: What a trip. You did Durango in Colorado, then you went back to Indiana … Dr. Ryan McCall: No. We went to Fort Collins. We were there for almost six years, I think. Shaun Keating: Okay. Dr. Ryan McCall: It was an awesome town. But my wife’s from the Midwest. She grew up in St. Louis. I’m about two hours away in Effingham, Illinois. Home of Heartland Dental. I don’t know if you’ve heard of them. Shaun Keating: Yeah. Sure. Who’s the guy? Workman? I remember meeting that guy. Dr. Ryan McCall: You should interview him, Keats! Shaun Keating: Rick Workman. Dr. Ryan McCall: Get him on the podcast. Shaun Keating: I know. I work with a few dentists. I used to work with quite a few dentists with Heartland. Then they just kind of go and find those labs … Price, price, price, and away. Dr. Ryan McCall: I bet they try to negotiate quite a bit. Shaun Keating: We want 25% off your list price. Then we want 3.5% kickback on the end of the year in total sales. This and that. I’m not saying that’s them. But it’s similar. Dr. Ryan McCall: It’s big corporations. I know. I feel you. I grew up in Effingham. All my family’s still there. We wanted to get closer now that we have four kids. We moved back right around three, almost four years ago. We bought this office. Now we have three. It’s going really well. Shaun Keating: Dude, that’s so cool. I’ve seen some of your stuff. I’ve been in a lab all my life. Last several years, I had my own operatory. I see more dentistry being done. Putting stuff in the mouth, you just get an appreciation for it. But I’d never really seen a lot of surgeries. I just kind of got on Facebook. We’d been on it for a while, but I never participated in it. I look at some of your stuff changing lives daily. #daily. I look at your stuff … Dr. Ryan McCall: You saw that? Shaun Keating: Yeah. That’s just so bitching, dude. You see the before, and these teeth are so loose. You could probably pop these teeth out with your freaking fingers. You do those immediately or it just depends? Dr. Ryan McCall: Yeah. Most of my cases are immediate. The one I posted yesterday, we got like 1,500 likes on. Organically, for free. Shaun Keating: That’s changing lives. Dr. Ryan McCall: For sure. Shaun Keating: I’m like a sissy boy. My stomach … Hats off. Just an extraction, seeing you guys pop teeth out. The way you use those instruments, I’m like … I got that gag reflex. I swear to God. That little punching bag. I can’t even do a shot of hard liquor or anything because it will come back right up. I could drink a gallon of beer, but I can’t do one shot or smell it. But I see some of the stuff that you’re doing and it’s so amazing. Just to really adapt to the ridges, too, when the extractions are immediate, how don’t know how the freak … We have issues I can fix. We have recent extraction sites. We go two pencils, scrape it. Two pencils, scrape it. It’s kind of an art to get that [inaudible 00:23:44] socketed right. I don’t know how you’re doing it. For dentures, too, doing immediates, and just doing what you do, just to freaking have these teeth coming in with these patients, a lot of these patients they got … I’d say, it’s a bowl of A-hole in your mouth. Dr. Ryan McCall: It’s crazy. That’s pretty good. I’m going to steal that. Shaun Keating: I don’t want to say that but … Dr. Ryan McCall: I’ll say it in my lecture. I’ll be like, “Shaun Keating calls this” … Shaun Keating: Yeah! Say, “That’s a bowl of A-hole!'” No. And it smells, and I’m sure it’s pussy. Dr. Ryan McCall: Most of my patients, man, haven’t seen a dentist in 20 years. We’re starting to draw from two and three hours away. Shaun Keating: Ah, man. Dr. Ryan McCall: It’s just been crazy because they all come in from social media. It’s insane. Shaun Keating: You’re kidding. It really is. Dr. Ryan McCall: Every single patient, man. Shaun Keating: I can see for dentists. That’s why I think dentists should. You have millions of patients out there to solicit in your area. Even, too, like you say, they come two, three hours. With me, I got to a handful of dentists in certain areas. To find the dentists, we try to go to the dental community. And we’re doing it. We’re finding our way. But if I was a dentist, being removable or fixed, yeah. I would be on social media, doing it. I see certain dentists out there, doing a lot with the social media. Like you said, you’re getting patients left and right on that. That’s huge, dude. That is so cool because back in the old days it was a lot of direct mail, a lot of putting leaflets. Now everything goes to your hand, to your phone. Dr. Ryan McCall: Oh, I know. 98% of it all is mobile. I don’t need to advertise on desktops anymore. But we’ve grown so quickly in Indiana. Shaun Keating: I’ve always admired … Even on Dentaltime, I go look at the pics. Just befores and afters. It’s a neat thing, man. Hats off to you. You hit a market, a niche. 90% of everyone’s doing all this stuff. Everything’s doing the same way out there. You’re beating your own path. You could do a McCall Dentures nationwide. Just get your system down and do it to where, hey, it’s 10%. Dr. Ryan McCall: That’s the plan. That’s the plan. We’ll blow that up. We’ll have a real estate company. [crosstalk 00:26:07] Shaun Keating: Kind of like a Heartland, but it’ll be a McCall Dental. Dr. Ryan McCall: I know, right? I just got to get on the cover of a magazine. Shaun Keating: Dude, I’m telling you, when I was on the cover of Dentaltown the first time, it was like 2006, we blew up. Dr. Ryan McCall: Did you really? Shaun Keating: Yeah. I blew up with dentists. They seen it. Then I was on it, again, a couple years ago. You don’t think it but, for you … I know. Some of my denture guys have sent you dentures. I think your pricing is real good, and you’re doing some good stuff. I think you really hit a good niche there. Dr. Ryan McCall: No. We don’t do outside work anymore. We got so busy in Indiana, we probably haven’t done outside work for about three years. How’s the lab game, Keats? It’s hard, bro. Honestly, I was like, “I’m just going to be a dentist.” The profit margin was nil compared to dentistry. So you’re a genius. I just want you to know that. Shaun Keating: I know it is, man. It really is. For you, it’s a lost art to find the guys to do it. They’re old school, guys. Dr. Ryan McCall: All the lab schools are closing, too. China, I’m sure they’re building lab schools like crazy. Shaun Keating: Ah, man. What do they got? Two billion people? Hell yeah. The way the damn digital world’s coming along, they got these digital dentures. Expensive as hell, average cost. Dr. Ryan McCall: Don’t get me started. You don’t want to hear what I think about digital dentures. Shaun Keating: It’s like 400 to 500 to get it done. They’re not that great. Dr. Ryan McCall: I’ll wait. Shaun Keating: Yeah. We’re going to wait. Just like all my scanners and all my CAD/CAM machines … I got hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars of equipment that is not useful right now, anymore. We were having a meeting this morning. It was like, “I got to get new model makers to print out these models.” They’re like … Dr. Ryan McCall: Don’t print your models. That’s so expensive. Shaun Keating: Oh, I know. But I’m doing so much models and digital impressions that I’ve got to wait for companies to do them. That’s the only thing I don’t have is making my own models. We’re sending them out. I got 3M, right now. I have this case that’s been back to them twice. Like, “Where’s my models?” It’s like six days later. My doctor’s like, “Shaun, this is on Friday.” If I had it right here, I could do them. They’re probably getting … Dr. Ryan McCall: They should have done this the way they’ve done it for 60 years. Shaun Keating: Yeah. It’s just nuts. Dr. Ryan McCall: That’s crazy. I think a lot of guys are going to want the kind of concierge thing. You know? Shaun Keating: Yeah. Dr. Ryan McCall: [inaudible 00:28:44] kind of thing where you print everything. Do you not have a printer? Shaun Keating: Oh yeah. We have two different printers. It’s pretty neat. They’re not for [crosstalk 00:28:52] We got the EnvisionTEC, and then we have the other one. Something 3000. It doesn’t even work anymore. It cost me a hundred grand. I can’t even get five grand in scrape metal. They won’t do it. Dr. Ryan McCall: I like the 3Shape stuff. It’s pretty cheap, too. But you’re so big, you need some serious volume printing. I just don’t see it yet, man. I’ve tried every system, with the digital stuff. I don’t see the cost benefit. Shaun Keating: Neither do we. That’s why we don’t have it here, and we have everyone and their brother wanting to offer it to us, let us try it. We’ve tried it. It’s like, “Dude, we’re still doing them by hand right now because I don’t want” … Dr. Ryan McCall: We’ll see. Shaun Keating: All these service plans, they’re, minimum, 10 grand a year. You’re looking, like, 800 bucks a month just to service if something goes bad. And it usually does after the second or third year. It’s just so expensive. Now we have this new one, this new printer, that’s part of Roland. They have these people. Everyone’s in this week because we have this big CAD/CAM symposium. Friday, Saturday, at the DLOAC. All the new products come out. We’re going to look at some new stuff. It’s just so expensive that we can’t find the ROI in it right now. I’d like to do it. The only thing I’m not doing it is because it’s so much more expensive than what I’m doing now. What I’m getting now is I can’t get turnaround as fast I want to. If I get a scan today, I want it done today. Models. And I want to be stacking it tomorrow. Dr. Ryan McCall: I could pour a denture in a couple of hours. Shaun Keating: Yeah. Dr. Ryan McCall: I go through four appointments and a printer try. I just no interest in doing that kind of thing. I’ve tried Vista Systems. I think AvaDent’s probably the closest. I’m not going to spend a ton of money on some type of denture mill. Shaun Keating: Give it a few years. Give it a few years. It’ll all wash out, and you’ll get the guys coming in. Get the system at 20 grand instead of 100 grand, or whatever. Dr. Ryan McCall: Look at cone beams. They used to cost 100 thousand dollars. Now they’re 60 [inaudible 00:31:04] Shaun Keating: Even our milling machines. I used to spend 80 to 100 grand on them, for all of them. Now I get my little Rolands for like 25 grand. Dr. Ryan McCall: That’s cool. Shaun Keating: I get four of them for the price of one. They’re so much more robust. They’re so much more accurate. It’s so freaking amazing how it’s evolved. Dr. Ryan McCall: It’s changed a lot. Shaun Keating: Seven, eight years ago, we were … “You got to get it. You got to get it.” I did a lot of bad investments on products. I should’ve held off. I’m not a big R&D guy. I want to do what I do. I make teeth, and I want to go off of what has been tried and true out there, and who has a company that’ll back it. I’m never doing flavor of the months again. I’ve lived and learned on that. That’s the business. (laughs) Dr. Ryan McCall: My lab would only do fixed gold work in the poster. Really nice, fancy gold work. That’s all I would do. We tried to do it with [inaudible 00:32:08] It was good but I just didn’t want to work with my colleagues. If you had to fire somebody or they get mad. A lot of them were kind of difficult to work with. So I got out of it pretty early. Shaun Keating: I think, because you’re such a sharp dude … Really, what you’ve done there, to go from Colorado over back to Indiana, and to open up tow, three practices, it’s really got something that can be replicated. Kind of like … Remember Ryan Swade? I love Ryan Swade. The dude’s a little bit out there, but he really hit off with that six months … I wonder how much that dude made when he sold that. Dr. Ryan McCall: Probably a couple bucks. Shaun Keating: I think a lot. Dr. Ryan McCall: Keats, I found Apollo on Facebook. Have him on, man. Shaun Keating: I watch him, and I just go … Dr. Ryan McCall: I’d cast him. Shaun Keating: (laughs) Dr. Ryan McCall: You should. [inaudible 00:33:03] or something. Shaun Keating: I’m going to get him on a podcast. I actually want to go out to freaking … Where’s he at? In Boulder? Dr. Ryan McCall: Probably, yeah. That’s pretty Boulder, though. Boulder … It’s super Cali now. Shaun Keating: Is it? Dr. Ryan McCall: A lot of people from the west coast, yeah. It’s so expensive, too. Shaun Keating: Is it, really? Dr. Ryan McCall: I love Colorado. It’s gorgeous. But there’s such a need for what we do here. It’s pretty crazy. Shaun Keating: I remember my good friend, he was one of our top ceramists. He went to Colorado. He went to a place called Breckenridge. It’s like a real good skiing area. He opened up a dental lab there, and did pretty good for a while. Then it kind of fell out the bottom. Colorado, it kind of reminds me of Arizona. They are their own people. It’s kind of like their own country, there. (laughs) Dr. Ryan McCall: We did well. It’s not like I was broke or anything. But we sold that office to a prosthodontist. Shaun Keating: No kidding. Dr. Ryan McCall: Yeah. I think there was only one other prosthodontist in town. So it worked out pretty well for everybody. Shaun Keating: Oh, heck yeah. Like I was saying, though, if you could replicate it … Dude, you never know. Build up a business plan on it. There’s a lot of dentists that, even if they just use it as a niche … Dr. Ryan McCall: Keats, I got all this shit, man. This is my plan. I just pretend like I’m dumb. Shaun Keating: Do that. You could say, in each dental office, “Hey. Give me 10% of your space, and we can have this little in-house lab. You could send your little guys to come out and train some of the knuckleheads” … Dr. Ryan McCall: Man, I want a franchise. I don’t even want to mess with a lab and stuff. Shaun Keating: Franchise it, but you have your key people that come in and do the training and the set up. Dr. Ryan McCall: That’s the thing that people lack is training with [inaudible 00:34:48] dentures and patient management. I’ve got a good friend in Minnesota. We talk a lot. It’s been a struggle to get her office manager onboard with everything. Handling denture patients and their compliance and things like that. So we’ve got a good team. We can train them up, man. You want to bring us out to California. Shaun Keating: You could do your custom little videos, just get those set up. Kind of PTC for dental technology. They got tapes 1 through 20 on how to wax a crown, how to baseplate a freaking denture. On and on. Dr. Ryan McCall: People ask for them everyday on Instagram. I talked to Eric Goldstein this morning. I think we’re going to try and do some videos on dentures and stuff. Maybe help some young guys out. Shaun Keating: Don’t give too much. You might want to do that as your own special sauce. You know? Dr. Ryan McCall: That’s a good call. Shaun Keating: You know? If you teach them all to do it then they can’t come in. But to come in, and to come up with a business plan on something like that, especially with … Dr. Ryan McCall: I’m not going to talk about business. They’re going to make dentures. Shaun Keating: (laughs) Dr. Ryan McCall: They’re going to learn how to take an [inaudible 00:35:53] Okay? That’s what I’m going to teach new grads. We’ll see. I’m giving a lecture at [inaudible 00:35:59] this year. I’m looking forward to it. Shaun Keating: Oh, you are? Good for you. That’s in Florida. Yeah, we’re going to be there. Dr. Ryan McCall: Oh, are you? Shaun Keating: Yeah. Dr. Ryan McCall: Oh, cool. Shaun Keating: We have a little booth there. Go by and say hi, for sure. We’ve always done the Vegas, through the years. It’s kind of a neat thing. But I’m sick of Vegas. We got there so much. Dr. Ryan McCall: The struggle! Shaun Keating: (laughs) Dr. Ryan McCall: Keats, you live such a rough life. You’re like, “I’m so tired of Vegas.” Shaun Keating: I’m so tired of going to Lawry’s. Shit. I was just telling somebody a couple weeks ago, “We flew there just for the night to go watch Tosh.0, man.” I love that guy. Dr. Ryan McCall: [inaudible 00:36:37] Gross. I’m over it. Shaun Keating: He doesn’t have any of his videos to show. He’s just a comedian, and he is funny as heck. Tall, lanky. I don’t know if the guy’s … Dr. Ryan McCall: He looks like me. Shaun Keating: Yeah! He kind of does. I was going to say … You’re kind of like Tosh, there, man. Kind of tall … Dr. Ryan McCall: I’m going to try to channel that into my lecture. Shaun Keating: Tall and lanky, and wear your little shirts. (laughs) Dr. Ryan McCall: Savage. So we got a lot of stuff going on. I don’t know what to do with the rest of my life. Shaun Keating: You’re young, dude. Heck. What are you? Like 30 years old? 35? Dr. Ryan McCall: I’m 35, so I’m getting old. Shaun Keating: Shit. I got a kid your age, almost. My boy’s 33. Kyle’s 33 and Travis is 30. That’s a trip. Dr. Ryan McCall: I wish you were my dad, too. Shaun Keating: (laughs) Who’s your daddy? Dr. Ryan McCall: (laughs) Shaun Keating: No. If I was your dad, you’d be like, “No, dad” … Dr. Ryan McCall: Like, “I’m not a dentist.” Shaun Keating: (laughs) Dr. Ryan McCall: I’m going to own a lab! That’s awesome. Shaun Keating: That’s funny. You know what? You could do it, if you get your stuff together and get that business plan worked out to where you have a thousand freaking McCall Dentures. Or Johnson Dentures. Whatever. Whatever the dentist’s name. Working harder is not what you want to do. You want to work smarter. Even, too, with growth. If you got the right foundation and structure, to have more growth, you just put a few more pieces in places. I remember, back in the day, when I worked for Monster Lab, it wasn’t big when I started. I remember going from 100 units a day to 1,000 a day. It wasn’t really that hard because, as long as you have your systems in place, it’s just adding pieces to the puzzle. The management and everything else, it takes a lot to really run that. Dr. Ryan McCall: Definitely. My biggest issue is probably going to be finding dentists that are interested in dentures. Shaun Keating: You got to tell them. “Not interested.” Well, you got to get some interest because that’s going to bring more patients in and more income. You’re going to get into a little bit more implants, sinking implants. You’re going to be doing little locators. People are going to be talking to other people. You’re not charging a gazillion dollars. You’re making it affordable, and you’re doing a great service. People are loving McCall after going from … Like seeing that Instagram picture. That dude’s mouth looked like freaking Dracula. Afterward, there’s upper and lower dentures. It’s like, “That guy’s Hollywood!” What a difference. What a game-changer for patients. I just love that. Dr. Ryan McCall: We do some high-end, premium dentures, too. [inaudible 00:39:31] a lot. We use that quite a bit. I don’t know if you guys … Shaun Keating: Yeah. We do, too. We do, too. Dr. Ryan McCall: It’s been good. I like it. Shaun Keating: Ivoclar is in here all the time. They’re really working on growing our business in the removable. They’ve been great for us, too. BEGO. We get a little more expensive dentures than a lot of places. We got premium, then we got the economy. It’s an amazing thing when you can put a new grill in a fixed case, or a new denture in a patient. It changes their life. Dr. Ryan McCall: It really does. Shaun Keating: It’s just kind of neat. Some of our younger dentists or dentists starting out, tell them a little bit about how you drive patients to your practice. Is it social media? You doing any other stuff? Tell me little stuff that you do to help drive patients to you, if you could. Dr. Ryan McCall: Sure, yeah. I work it. We go to community health fairs and things like that. In rural markets, especially, we’ll go to a [inaudible 00:40:31] festival, or whatever, and set up a booth. But 99% of it comes from social media. Shaun Keating: No kidding. Which one? Which platform mostly, do you think? Dr. Ryan McCall: It started out as Facebook. Probably seven, eight years ago, it was much cheaper. Facebook has gotten progressively more expensive to advertise on. Lately, I’ve seen a huge switch to Instagram. You guys are smart to get on there. I think that’s where it’s all headed. Shaun Keating: It’s kind of neat. I always thought Instagram was just pictures, but I guess you can do the little videos, too, and stuff. Dr. Ryan McCall: Ads. Oh yeah. Keats, you guys got to do video ads. Square Video. Trust me. Shaun Keating: Eric’s shaking his head: “Yes. Yes. Yes.” All right. Okay. We’re going to do that. Let’s do it. Maybe you could help us, too. Tell us what I don’t want to do. I don’t want to piss dentists off. I don’t want to spam them. If you got some stuff … Dr. Ryan McCall: No. Eric’s doing a good job. Shaun Keating: Good. Dr. Ryan McCall: You don’t need to pay me as a consultant. He’s doing a good job. Shaun Keating: (laughs) No. I appreciate any … We’ll help you in any way, too. I kind of hate it when … I bought some stuff from Chewy, for my dogs, I got these puppies, and now these damn guys chase me everywhere. I bought something from Amazon, a little dog carpet cleaner thing, and now those guys are chasing me. That’s just what they do. I guess you can go up to the X and say, “I already bought this,” and they’ll go something else. Dr. Ryan McCall: Yeah. You don’t want to annoy people. I think if you start retargeting, kind of like you’re saying, and hitting them over the head with it, they’ll get tired of it. Especially dentists. Shaun Keating: Yeah. I find that. Dr. Ryan McCall: With patients, I put everything out there. I’m not afraid to put a case out there and get some negative comments. Shaun Keating: That’s another thing, too. You got to have thick skin. I mean, I don’t like it. I get beat up on some shitty crowns that I did. I remember one: we stained a crown, we did some modeling, some hypercalcification stuff. Somehow it got out the door. It looked like a Bambi crown. It was on there year ago. The doctor was real cool not to say the lab. I knew I did it. It looked like a Bambi crown. It looked like the doe spots. It looked like crap. I feel bad. It hits me … I got thin skin or something. I take it personally because I’m only as good as my people. They’re a reflection of me. How the hell can that go out QC? Dr. Ryan McCall: Just make Eric deal with it. Shaun Keating: (laughs) No. It all comes to me. Everything. We get, mostly, a lot of love and a lot of great stuff. But there’s some stuff … When you work with silly little humans, things can go awry sometimes. Especially in this field. Dr. Ryan McCall: We went from, mostly, getting followers in Indy to, now, I’m getting followers all over the world. Most of my negative comments come from Iran and places like that. I try to stay on top of it and delete it. If I ever pull a questionable tooth on someone, they all freak out for some reason. Shaun Keating: “You should be doing this. You should be doing ortho.” It’s like, “Dude, the guy doesn’t have two nickels to rub together.” That same thing with me with fixed. We’re cutting down all these teeth, doing a roundhouse. “You should’ve” … You know what, dude? It is what it is. Dr. Ryan McCall: People like money. Shaun Keating: You can’t please everyone. Dr. Ryan McCall: You’re going to get some haters if you’re doing something. I’m okay with it. It took a while to get thick skin. Now that we’re rocking out, I’m not afraid to put all kinds of stuff out there. People are really into it. Shaun Keating: That’s so cool. Dr. Ryan McCall: Yeah. It’s crazy. So I went to this Instagram thing. I met the guy that started the Korean food trucks in LA. Roy, Troy, or something like that. Shaun Keating: Kogi or something? Dr. Ryan McCall: Yeah! Yeah! Shaun Keating: That guy’s around here, too. It’s good stuff, man. Dr. Ryan McCall: He’s cool, man. That was the highlight of my trip there. Then Vans, the shoe company, their CEO was there. The CEO of Instagram was there, too. It was a really cool experience. Shaun Keating: That’s so cool. That’s it. All in life. Who you meet, who comes in front of you. Dr. Ryan McCall: I learned a lot from them. Have you heard of Drybar? Shaun Keating: No. Dr. Ryan McCall: The hair blowout place. Shaun Keating: Oh, yeah! I bought my wife one of those at the little Irvine Spectrum. It’s like 50 bucks for two blowouts or something. Dr. Ryan McCall: Alli, the lady who started that, she was there, too. It was really cool. Shaun Keating: That’s exciting when you can go and work directly with the people. With me, it’s such a niche to find dentists. We got to work a little extra hard. For you, you just got all … Dr. Ryan McCall: I got so much stuff going on. I don’t even know what to do with myself. I got to work now. I used to play video games. I was telling my wife last night, “I haven’t played video games for, like, two months.” Shaun Keating: (laughs) You know what? You need to hire some associates so you can sit there and just … You can oversee and mentor, and you’ll get so much more done. That’s the biggest thing in my industry. There’s so many awesome ceramists, so many great technicians, that are still on the bench, and still doing the teeth. Your employees get better. Get off the bench and grow your practice, grow your lab, grow your dental practice, by mentoring and teaching. Dr. Ryan McCall: Yeah. That’s probably where I’m headed with my future. I wanted to teach. I looked at a couple different dental schools. They were going to make me check restorative preps and Class tier composites and stuff. I was like, “I’d like to do dentures.” Now only prosthodontist can do it. I was like, “Okay.” I was like, “I’ll just do it myself then.” I’ll film some videos and [inaudible 00:46:31] DVD series. Shaun Keating: You should, man. But you’re not selling to them. The only thing you’re going to get is the money off of them going to that coarse. I just don’t think that’s a lot of money. You could have 20 guys at 500 bucks … I guess there’s some money there. You should just open it up to all … You could just build your practices there to where you could take overflow from some dentists out there. Dentists are always looking. Dr. Ryan McCall: We’ve gotten a lot just from the magazine, this week. We’ve gotten four guys in town that have asked for referral forms. Then I had another guy in southern Indiana that is selling a denture office. I had to look into it. Shaun Keating: There you go. A lot of dentists don’t want to fuck with it. Dr. Ryan McCall: A lot of them don’t want to do dentures because denture patients sometimes have a negative stereotype. They’ve been through, probably, a hard life. They just don’t know how to handle the patient part of it. Shaun Keating: Exactly. Dr. Ryan McCall: It’s difficult. Bro, I got hit in the head a couple weeks ago by a sedated denture patient. Shaun Keating: (laughs) Geez. Dr. Ryan McCall: I’m not even kidding. I was so mad. I was ready to hand in my license. It was a long day. We sent him to an oral surgeon to get an IV. He legit punched me in the head. Shaun Keating: No kidding. Dr. Ryan McCall: Yeah. He came in. He was like, “Why wouldn’t you take the rest of the teeth out?” Shaun Keating: You were beating the crap out of me, dude! What do you mean? Dr. Ryan McCall: I could have called the cops. Shaun Keating: And you shit the chair! (laughs) I had a dentist tell me that happened to him. He works down in Florida, on older patients. Dr. Ryan McCall: That happened to me one time in Colorado. I took it and I cleaned it up. Shaun Keating: (laughs) Dr. Ryan McCall: One time, we had a guy who was sedated, and he ate a bunch of chocolate-covered cherries before his surgery. He puked all over me after [inaudible 00:48:26] Bro, I used to tell people I’d never had anyone puke. That’s my joke when I [inaudible 00:48:33] But he broke it. I cleaned that one up, too. Shaun Keating: You’ve had it all, and you’re such a young guy. Dr. Ryan McCall: I’ve seen it all. Shaun Keating: That’s like my one buddy. He said, “Shit the bed Margaret.” His wife, Margaret, used to shit the bed. Dr. Ryan McCall: That’s [inaudible 00:48:48] I definitely think, down the road, my future’s going to be more in teaching, and then touring, like you were saying. Shaun Keating: Yeah. Work smarter, not harder, dude. Dr. Ryan McCall: What I do a lot of is patient management. Communication, you know? Communicating with people who don’t like the dentist and typically don’t trust the dentist. I try to spin that a little differently than most guys do with dentures. Shaun Keating: Absolutely. Especially because these people, probably, don’t have a whole heck of a lot of money. They just … Dr. Ryan McCall: You’d be amazed. Shaun Keating: Probably, they do. You never know. People are always saying they don’t have it. I don’t know. Dr. Ryan McCall: No. They do. A lot of our patients will save up for six years. Shaun Keating: I think you do CareCredit. It’s either cash or CareCredit, right? Dr. Ryan McCall: Yeah. CareCredit’s tough. Shaun Keating: Is it? Dr. Ryan McCall: A lot of people don’t get qualified. We’ve tried a couple other companies, but CareCredit’s the only option that’s really relevant. Maybe I’ll start a bank and I’ll start financing … Shaun Keating: Maybe you should do it. Instead of 27 … God only knows what CareCredit costs, the percentage rate. Dr. Ryan McCall: Forget dentistry. Let’s just start our own bank. Shaun Keating: Yeah. I’ll get in on that. Even at 5 or 10%. I’m not greedy. Give me 5% return. I’ll be good with that. Make it 10. Dr. Ryan McCall: We do, mostly, big cases. If we have to finance, we’re happy to secure that for them as well. We got a couple different options. With the dentures, got a few different levels. We can work with pretty much any budget. I can compete with the big chains now. I think we make a better product than they do. Shaun Keating: Absolutely. Dr. Ryan McCall: Even with our super cheap dentures, the economy ones, we’ll a try-in, just because my lab techs actually care. They don’t want to make something that’s not wearable. I think that’s helped us out a lot. I used to really be ashamed of charging a little bit less for some of our options. But [inaudible 00:50:47] it helps so many people out. Shaun Keating: Oh, yeah. When they can tell it’s real, and you’re coming from your heart. The whole thing. The bedside manner than you have, that’s 90% of it. Dr. Ryan McCall: I just think young guys aren’t really interested in dentures. I’ll hopefully change that. We’ll see. Shaun Keating: What about on your dentures? I know you do implants and some locators. Do you have a surgeon that’s sinking them? Are you doing any sinking yourself? Dr. Ryan McCall: I placed them in Colorado. Now, I have a lot of oral surgeons in the area that I work with. Shaun Keating: Good. Dr. Ryan McCall: They send us some dentures. We try to get them some implants. I’ve found that every single oral surgeon loves implants. Shaun Keating: Oh, heck yeah. You know they do. Dr. Ryan McCall: Now, every dentist does. It’s a competitive market, too. I’m seeing prices around, on implants, for like 699 and 799. Shaun Keating: Can you believe that? Here, minimum, it’s 1,500 a pop. It’s ridiculous. Dr. Ryan McCall: And you know they’re coming from Korea or somewhere. They probably got them for like 60 bucks. Shaun Keating: Are they even FDA approved? It’s like, “Come on, man.” We got a couple getting in trouble. We’re sinking stuff in the mouth, some of those mini implants. They’re just stapling them in. It’s like, “Dude …” Dr. Ryan McCall: I saw a case yesterday, she had like six mini implants. They’re fun to work with. Especially those ball attachments. It’ll be [inaudible 00:52:11] But I really like [inaudible 00:52:14] locators are awesome. They make a huge difference for our patients, too. They normally just get two on the bottom. Shaun Keating: Exactly. That’s all you need. Pull on that little piece of steak. It’ll hold it in there. Dr. Ryan McCall: Have you tried those new Zests, the fixed ones they’re advertising? It’s more for [inaudible 00:52:31] and stuff. I forget the name. I haven’t tried it yet. You have to put a balloon in there to take it off and stuff. Mostly, their stuff’s pretty good. I’ll send you a link. I’ll post it on your blog or something. Shaun Keating: Yeah. My guys are all into it. Dr. Ryan McCall: I’ll ask one of your lab techs. They’ll be like, “Yeah. We did that like two years ago.” Shaun Keating: Yeah. I’m sure we did. It’s just a nightmare. Even all-on-fours. Dr. Ryan McCall: I would love to do … So many of my patients, man, they can’t afford 15 grand per arch. A lot of people don’t want to pay that. Shaun Keating: My lab bill on those are like four or five grand by the time we’re said and done, so the doctor better be charging a lot there. Dr. Ryan McCall: Are you milling titanium? Shaun Keating: No. We send it all out. We send that out to Atlantis, and different places. Dr. Ryan McCall: Do they opaque or do that … What is it? Anodize it. Shaun Keating: Yes. We only do one or two a month. I’m like, “Yeah. That’s it.” It’s like, “What the heck? That’s a $5,000 case.” Dr. Ryan McCall: Everybody wants to do it. There’s just not a ton of it. Maybe, eventually, it’ll be affordable. I just don’t see it happening right now. Shaun Keating: Yeah. Neither do I. Dr. Ryan McCall: I’m cool with the locators, man. They work well for our patients. If they do [inaudible 00:53:49] I can do it. But I just get a handful of those cases, unfortunately. I’m never like, “I did six all-on-fours today.” Take the month off. Shaun Keating: Exactly. That’s what I’m saying. But those cases take so much time, and so much hand-holding. I’d rather do 500 single units than two locator cases because it’s just a nightmare. Dr. Ryan McCall: It is a lot of work, and it helps a lot of people, but it’s not all in a day. Patients don’t understand that. They don’t realize they’re temporary. You’re going to have to come in 40 times before you get [crosstalk 00:54:31] Shaun Keating: Isn’t that similar to the ClearChoice or something? Dr. Ryan McCall: We have TurningPoint, here. [inaudible 00:54:39] the dental spin-off. I don’t know if they do very well. It’s a different model, for sure. My model is the opposite inspection. Shaun Keating: My model is fixed prosthodontics, to tell you the truth. I love [crosstalk 00:54:53] Dr. Ryan McCall: You know your market. Shaun Keating: Nothing I do better than fixed. I freaking love it, man. It’s just crazy. Dr. Ryan McCall: You saw McCall was going to be on here, and you were upset because you knew you’d have to talk about dentures. Shaun Keating: No! Not at all. I almost closed our dentures down a year or two back. Dr. Ryan McCall: For real? Shaun Keating: Yeah. Just because it’s not real profitable for us, but it’s something that the doctors really love it because we do a lot of combo cases, a lot of ERA, extra-coronal attachments. Stuff like that. Off the thick, we have to work with it. The doctors would be really pissed if … It’s something that you got to have worked with removable. That’s why I kept it. But we probably end up losing money each month on having a removable department. What it costs me for like 15 people to be there, and what I do in sales. When you add everything up, it’s like I break even. Dr. Ryan McCall: Are there any big removable labs? I don’t even know. Shaun Keating: Come again? Dr. Ryan McCall: Are there any big removable labs? Shaun Keating: I don’t even know, dude. Only lab I’ve ever been in is my lab. I’m amazed. I’ve been in like one or two labs, in my life, other than mine. I really don’t know in the outside world. 99% of all the big labs, and big removable labs, they don’t market or advertise in magazines. You don’t really see them. They’re just big because … Dr. Ryan McCall: They’re just so big. Do you have a loading dock? Shaun Keating: No. Dr. Ryan McCall: Oh, you don’t? What kind of lab are you, Keats? Shaun Keating: (laughs) They just pull the truck up to the back. Double doors and open it up. Dr. Ryan McCall: How else do you get it to China? Shaun Keating: No. We don’t do China, baby. Everything’s made here in Irvine, California. Dr. Ryan McCall: USC. Yes, sir. I kind of enjoy playing on that, too. Especially on Instagram and stuff. American flag. Shaun Keating: Yeah. Made in America. Dr. Ryan McCall: I know a lot of guys that use Chinese [inaudible 00:56:49] man. I really do. Shaun Keating: Oh, I know. Dr. Ryan McCall: It’s [inaudible 00:56:53] I get it. But they don’t support labs in the US, try to keep lab schools open … Shaun Keating: Are you telling your patients? Are they telling their patients? Transparency. No. Probably, 70% of the labs out there, that are still going, are outsourcing all their stuff to either Thailand or China or Vietnam. Dr. Ryan McCall: Really? Shaun Keating: They’re getting it for a certain price. They’re just, basically, middle men. The dentist doesn’t know it. But the dentist … “I’m getting it for $69. I don’t care where it goes.” It’s all about price. They think, “If I can get 20, 30% cheaper on my lab bill, life will be better.” I think that doesn’t really … Dr. Ryan McCall: But if you work with a good lab, and you don’t have remakes … Shaun Keating: And you don’t have problems or issues, and the crowns are beautiful and looking awesome, and patients are talking about them, it really grows practices. Dr. Ryan McCall: They’re sexy. Shaun Keating: Yeah. Make them sexy. Dr. Ryan McCall: Do you do a lot of staining and tinting and all that stuff? Shaun Keating: We do all sorts of stuff with that, when it comes to modifying … We do modify opaquers and PFMs and all ceramic. A lot of blue. A lot of orange. Dr. Ryan McCall: You’re such a nerd. Shaun Keating: (laughs) It’s so neat. These guys are artists here, man. Dr. Ryan McCall: Fried okra. Shaun Keating: Come again? Dr. Ryan McCall: You should do some fried okra stains. That’d be kind of cool. Shaun Keating: Yeah. We got every color in the book, man, out here. These guys got these pallets with 30 colors. If you put red and yellow together, you’re getting green. You got all this stuff. Then you glaze it. It’s there forever, man. I had this one patient call me: “Shaun, I got my crowns here. I’m trying to bleach them, like, four times.” I said, “Steve, you’re not going to be able to bleach them. Those are baked, man. That’s the color yellow and a half.” He goes, “It’s just not as white as I wanted them.” “Let’s cut them off and recap them.” (laughs) Dr. Ryan McCall: Ah, man. Cutting ups or going in is like the worst thing in the world. Shaun Keating: Oh, I know. I can only imagine. I’ve had doctors tell me about it. There’s not much breakage, ever. But when you got to cut it off, man, it’s a nightmare. Dr. Ryan McCall: You guys do the Bruxers, right? Shaun Keating: Yeah. You got to get a jackhammer. Then you’re probably going to need endo on it. Dr. Ryan McCall: That’s awesome. Shaun Keating: (laughs) Dr. Ryan McCall: I like the [inaudible 00:59:12] that you guys have, too. That’s a cool idea. Shaun Keating: We developed that with a doctor of ours. Four-in-one. It’s an implant locator. It’s a removable temporary. Dr. Ryan McCall: For single units, man, I think that’s pretty cool. Do you use clear or flexible material? Shaun Keating: Yep. Absolutely. We can do it in different colors, too, a little bit. Darker, lighter. It’s just a process. Dr. Ryan McCall: Who makes that? Shaun Keating: Our denture department, upstairs. (laughs) Dr. Ryan McCall: [inaudible 00:59:42] Shaun Keating: Yep. I got one dude that just it down. Come again? Dr. Ryan McCall: Do you know which material they use? You’re like, “No. I’m not going to tell you how to make the [inaudible 00:59:51]” Shaun Keating: Yeah. It’s kind of our secret sauce, but I’m sure we can tell you because you’re not going after my dentists. No. It’s all good. You could ask Jim [inaudible 01:00:01] Call him. Just ask for Jim. [inaudible 01:00:03] Dr. Ryan McCall: Oh, so it’s cured. I’ve never done anything like that. Shaun Keating: It’s pretty cool. Dr. Ryan McCall: A lot of people are like, “They might swallow it.” Shaun Keating: No. It’s pretty locked and loaded in there. Pretty retentive. It’s kind of like your little flipper type thing, your little Nesbit. Remember Nesbits? Dr. Ryan McCall: Oh yeah. It’s basically a Nesbit. It’s like a flexible Nesbit. Shaun Keating: We got an implant sleeve. It’s pretty neat. Dr. Ryan McCall: Are you guys doing a lot of surgical guides and stuff like that? Shaun Keating: We’re doing those. We love it when doctors use those. Dr. Ryan McCall: That’s going to be big. Shaun Keating: Yeah. Dr. Ryan McCall: That’s where the growth’s headed. I think, a lot of the new grads, they want cone beams, and they want guided surgery and stuff. Shaun Keating: It makes everything so much more predictable. We love it because, for years, we got into implants every which way. We got to become magicians. Now, we’re getting some really good dentists doing it by the book. We’re doing surgical guides. We’re doing everything the way you should do it. It’s predictable, and it’s easy for us. One of our fastest growing areas is that implant, retained restorations. Unbelievable. Dr. Ryan McCall: Yeah. For sure. I used to place, but it’s a lot of work. Now I’m doing mostly dentures. Stuff like that. I can’t complain. Practice limited to dentures. Shaun Keating: That is so cool, man. Ryan, I can’t thank you enough for this, man. This is really awesome. Dr. Ryan McCall: Thanks, Keats. I enjoyed it, buddy. Shaun Keating: Yeah. My hats off to you. Congratulations on all your accolades and getting on the cover of Dentaltown. That’s an accomplishment. That’s really awesome, dude. Dr. Ryan McCall: Thank you. I appreciate it, man. Shaun Keating: You’re really a stand-up guy. You practice some great dentistry. You know what? I’m telling you: in 5, 10 years, I bet you’re going to be … I know good things are coming your way. I just know it’s in you. You’re a real humble kid. You got four kids. Now, those kids, what do you got? Four kids. How old and boys, girls? Dr. Ryan McCall: We have two of each, and they’re all under the age of seven. I haven’t slept in like seven years. Shaun Keating: Ah, man. I can imagine. But, you know, in another 10 years, those guys are going to be your best … That’s going to be tough times, too. Dr. Ryan McCall: It’ll be cool. I see pictures of your kids. You guys are playing softball. Just got to fight the young age and get through it. I’m looking forward to it. Shaun Keating: You’re in Indiana, dude. You better have that basketball court out there. They better be shooting, draining 300 shots a day. Dr. Ryan McCall: Oh, you know it, man. We’re going to be hanging out with like Rik Smits and stuff. We’re going to [inaudible 01:02:43] I’m super excited. Shaun Keating: That’s so cool. Sorry for taking Alford, man. That guy’s a stud. He’s a great coach. Dr. Ryan McCall: That’s like another hour and a half podcast, right there. Shaun Keating: Yeah. No kidding. What do you think about Ball and those guys, in China. That’s so stupid. It’s so crazy. Dr. Ryan McCall: They’re like the Kardashians of basketball. Shaun Keating: Yeah. Dr. Ryan McCall: They really are, man. Their dad … I can’t decide if he’s a genius or if he’s crazy. Shaun Keating: Yeah. He seems like a knucklehead. Then you hear him and talk to him, and he seems pretty humble. I don’t know. The boys are going to have to step up and really do it. Dr. Ryan McCall: If I had three sons that were all playing in [inaudible 01:03:21], then I’d probably do the same thing. [inaudible 01:03:23] He’s a personal trainer, too. And UCLA’s got the pipeline, so good for you. Shaun Keating: They better do something with those three. They can’t just let them go play. You should suspend them for four or five games, at least. They got to go show something. Dr. Ryan McCall: I haven’t even followed it, man. We’ve been so busy. I’ve gotten off of like all social media. I only use it for business now. Shaun Keating: That’s it. Dr. Ryan McCall: It’s crazy. I’ve missed out on all of fantasy football this year. I suck. I’m probably not going to play any next year. I haven’t followed any of the NBA. I got to fix this. The struggle. Shaun Keating: Life’s good, man, when you don’t have to worry about it. Dr. Ryan McCall: For sure. Thanks for having me on, brother. I appreciate it, and all your help over the years, too, man. You’re always helpful with answering questions. Shaun Keating: You’re the man. Dr. Ryan McCall: I appreciate it. It’s been really cool to meet you guys. Tell Travis I said hi, and Ramsey. Shaun Keating: Absolutely. Dr. Ryan McCall. You the man, dude. Thank you so much. Dr. Ryan McCall: Thanks, Keats. Take care, buddy. Shaun Keating: We’ll talk to you real soon. All right, man. Dr. Ryan McCall: I appreciate it.


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