The Importance of a Good Dentist and a strong Dental Lab Relationship with Dr. B. Jason Toups, DDS

Host: Ladies and gentlemen, this is the Dental Up Podcast brought to you by Keating Dental Lab, a full-service, award-winning dental laboratory. Each week you’ll learn tips and techniques from real world dentists bringing you in-depth interviews, motivating stories, current events and sports. Here’s your host, Shaun Keating.

Shaun Keating: Hey, everyone, Shaun here. Welcome to another episode of the Dental Up Podcast. Our guest this week graduated from USL and received a Bachelor’s of Fine Arts degree. In 2006, he earned his Doctorate of Dental Surgery degree from the accredited Louisiana State University School of Dentistry in New Orleans and he also has an advanced training in Oral Conscious Sedation. Currently practicing from Lafayette, Louisiana, please welcome Dr. Jason Toups. How’s it going, Dr. Toups?

Dr. Toups: Oh, it’s going good, brother. Good to talk to you, Shaun.

Shaun Keating: Oh, man. Thank you so much, dude. I love it, man. Yeah, you and your Pops have been with us forever, man sending us lab work and heck, your sister even …

Dr. Toups: I know it. I haven’t got rid of you yet, man. I had to let you go. I can’t get rid of you, man. You’re like a bad habit. I love it.

Shaun Keating: And you got your sister in there too, man. It’s all in the family.

Dr. Toups: Yeah, yeah. We’ve convinced her to join this crazy business. And like I said, she picked up on the Keating addiction and we love it, man. We love it.

Shaun Keating: That’s so cool, man. I love hearing that and you guys are buddies with that Jerry Smith out there too, aren’t you?

Dr. Toups: That’s correct, that’s who turned me on to you all. I’m a famous Katrina senior. Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans and shut us down our senior year and we came up with a intern program for the seniors and I ended up with Dr. Carl Braugh whose best friends with Jerry Smith and, like I said, that’s why I’ve been using you before I became a legal dentist. I’ve been bushwhacking dentistry from Keating from before I became a dentist in 2006.

Shaun Keating: Yeah, man, I love that. I do a little bushwhacking here at my dental op. I always wanted to be a dentist. I can’t get those shots down, man. I got to keep practicing. I practice on that grapefruit but it’s not that good now. I’m just kidding.

Dr. Toups: I gotcha.

Shaun Keating: We don’t use any Novocaine around here. We just pump up the nitrous for them, man.

Dr. Toups: Put the nitrous in the A/C units, man. It’s good.

Shaun Keating: That’s what we do, baby. That’s why we’re the happiest dental lab in the world, man.

Dr. Toups: I love it, man. I love it.

Shaun Keating: No, that’s funny. Man, so dude, I always talk a little bit about sports starting off, and I bet you’re a big Saints fan or no, or what about those Tigers?

Dr. Toups: Big Saints fan, big Tiger fan, and I tell you what, you know, us Southern boys we take this just a little too seriously but the Saints are looking good. We didn’t have a big draft but I don’t think we needed to. We did a big purchase on the tight end from the Raiders. He’s an all-pro guy. It seems like the Saints got it going pretty good. Drew Brees is probably on the tail end of his career but really they put a good solid team around him. Give another good run.

Dr. Toups: I know y’all Rams kinda got away with a good one last year. So we won’t hold it against you. We won’t bring it up but I was at that game and didn’t attend a game all year. I go to the one Saints game and that happens. I was like, “Oh, I jinxed them. I’m the black bean. You know, the gold? Damn.”

Shaun Keating: That was such a travesty.

Dr. Toups: But it’s a good time.

Shaun Keating: Yeah, it really was.

Dr. Toups: In that stadium, being closed in, was so loud and obnoxious and when that call went the wrong way it turned from good time to almost a mob-state. But …

Shaun Keating: Oh, I bet.

Dr. Toups: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And then I’m a big LSU die-hard fan and so we got the returning quarterback coming back. We got a big recruiting class. ESPN’s already starting to talk smack about the freshmen incoming class is going to be top-notch. But college football’s way more unpredictable, which just makes it more fun.

Shaun Keating: Oh heck, yeah there’s nothing like going to a good college game, and it’s for real. They’re all playing for the love of it, man, and from the heart.

Dr. Toups: That’s right, that’s, right.

Shaun Keating: And these NFL guys, man, they got all the money, and they decide what plays they want to make and how hard they want to go sometimes. But last season was pretty neat but back to that Ram game, and they got to change something. I mean, I felt really bad when that happened, like “How the heck can they not call that?” They got to be able to go back and change and show something like that, but I mean, that’s just changing the history of the game in a way but you can’t have that. That is just so crazy. That they-

Dr. Toups: Not with today’s technology. Not with today’s technology, with the cameras at every angle. We as the audience see ten different views. You can slow it down to a fricking split second.

Shaun Keating: Exactly.

Dr. Toups: And it’s like, the NFL, and I don’t even see why it’s an issue, NFL should have already implemented that from that call.

Shaun Keating: Yeah, if it’s something-

Dr. Toups: It should have been a no-brainer. So the politics behind it is baffling.

Shaun Keating: Oh, absolutely and it’s so blatant. I don’t know if it’s one lifeline like they used to do in whatever that millionaire show. You got to have a lifeline for each team. One lifeline at least that they can go back and do a review of something. That was the whole game. I mean, if that dude, if that penalty’s called, they’re down the five-yard-line. But I think all he needed was a field goal or I don’t know what it was.

Dr. Toups: No, we were up.

Shaun Keating: You’re right.

Dr. Toups: We were up because … [crosstalk 00:05:34] You’re right. That’s right. We were setting up, that would’ve been a first down too and all we needed was a field goal. But, oh, yeah, man, like you said, it’s one of those things. Within Louisiana, we just roll with it. We just wait for the next good time.

Shaun Keating: Oh, man. If that would’ve been in Cleveland, man, there would have been gunshots and all sorts of … No, I probably shouldn’t say that but it would have been … Or the Raiders, man, those damn Raiders are just like a bunch of convicts. No.

Dr. Toups: I’m telling you, man. So what’s your team? Whose your college team?

Shaun Keating: College team? I’m a USC guy. My brother went to USC so, but they haven’t done nothing in years. I remember with Carol was there with the big Texas games and all that but you guys-

Dr. Toups: That’s right because we got Reggie Bush from you all. Yeah.

Shaun Keating: Reggie. Reggie got, you know, he was getting money in the eighth grade from what I hear. And his parents, he was rolling in an Escalade in junior high.

Dr. Toups: Yeah, you know, let me tell you, they get caught giving those guys money, but I mean that’s a whole other topic we can cover for is college athletes and getting paid. The colleges make so much money off these athletes. I don’t know. They need to set up some kind of maybe trust fund where they take some of these profits and give it to them. I don’t like paying them outright but, man, they got to come up with something better than the current process they have for these athletes.

Shaun Keating: You got to have something.

Dr. Toups: Right. If you’re going to restrict them from going make a living in the NFL and making them stay two to one year whatever sport they play. You’re going to have to compensate these kids. This is getting ridiculous.

Shaun Keating: Absolutely, I mean, I hear just the hardships with them just eating with all football or baseball, all these athletes, they got to go to the dorm, and a lot of them don’t have cash, and you have to work your job or whatever to get by. But with all your homework, and they’re making so many billions at it. It’s got to be a stipend or something, a little something at least or something at the of it all.

Dr. Toups: That’s right. That’s right. Yeah, Ben Simmons whose at LSU’s the prime example. They made him player of the year, so he picks LSU. He goes, he’s sitting there living right above probably the poverty line but, yeah, he’s in school. But, I mean, you made him go to school. I mean, they made him go to college and then he says, “Well, I don’t have to attend class. I’m not here for an education. I’m here because you all made me play one season.”

Shaun Keating: Exactly.

Dr. Toups: Goes also to the [inaudible 00:07:53]. So they got to do something different. But there’s so much money being made on the college level, it’s just going to be hard to stop that.

Shaun Keating: Oh, it’s crazy.

Dr. Toups: I don’t know how. Yeah, it is. It is, man. It is.

Shaun Keating: And that Ben Simmons’ a stud. I didn’t know, he’s from Louisiana, man. That kid is …

Dr. Toups: I don’t think he’s from here. I’m not sure where he’s from but I know he played at LSU and then he got suspended this fall because he wasn’t attending class. Which he was like, “Well, I don’t have to go to class.”

Shaun Keating: Yeah. I’m going to the NFL. I’m going to the NBA, baby.

Dr. Toups: Yeah. I’m going to the NBA. Yeah. So it’s, they’re going to have to come up with something. And then our coach got busted for a conference call or some kind of recorded voice message. The way for the college coach recruiting one of these basketball players, the smart kid. They let the smart kid back on the team. Yeah. So like I said, that’s going to be a big stink.

Shaun Keating: I love your football coach at Ogden, dude. He was with us at SC. He’s such a …

Dr. Toups: That’s right.

Shaun Keating: How do you say it? Coach O?

Dr. Toups: Coach O. Coach O. It’s oh yeah, Orgeron.

Shaun Keating: Orgeron. I listen to that dude talk, man. It reminds me of the dude on Water Boy. He’s like [crosstalk 00:09:03].

Dr. Toups: That’s it. That’s it, man. Oh, yeah. We love Coach O down here. This year was a big year for him because, man, he was in the hot seat.

Shaun Keating: Yeah, he was.

Dr. Toups: We brought in an offensive coordinator from [inaudible 00:09:16], the interviewing coach. But it really turned out a very good positive year for him and now he’s got a full head of steam. He’s got a returning quarterback. We lost the white and the cornerback in the draft but we lost a few good players. We got a lot of meat coming back so this’ll be a good year for us.

Shaun Keating: Well, I hope you guys do good, man. We got to knock off the Clemsons and the Alabamas. Get them out of there again, man. I hate those teams. No, I don’t hate them but-

Dr. Toups: I know, old Saban, he’s hard to whip, I’m going to tell you.

Shaun Keating: Oh, that Dabo Swinney, or what’s his name? Dabo?

Dr. Toups: Dabo. Yeah. Dabo from Clemson, he’s right up there.

Shaun Keating: Yeaha, he’s so good.

Dr. Toups: In fact, somebody was telling me yesterday, he just signed a big contract. His buy out is phenomenal but if he goes to Alabama it’s double.

Shaun Keating: Yeah, that’s what they said, if you get bought out you got to pay triple. I think it’s a hundred million dollar contract the guy got, man.

Dr. Toups: Isn’t it? A college coach? [crosstalk 00:10:11]. A college coach.

Shaun Keating: That’s my dream and in all my … I’m in dental tech 36 years, but I’ve been involved with football since I was eight years old and I’m 56 and football’s been part of my life every day, every year of my life and …

Dr. Toups: Same here. Same here, brother.

Shaun Keating: I run my business like a fricking football team, dude, I swear to God. I’ve wrote about it in articles and I run and I got my offensive line. I got my running backs. I got my quarterbacks. I got my special teams. I got my front office.

Dr. Toups: And you got a good team, brother.

Shaun Keating: Yeah. Thank you, man.

Dr. Toups: You got a good team.

Shaun Keating: And I’m the owner.

Dr. Toups: You got a good team.

Shaun Keating: I’m the owner and you’re the coach.

Dr. Toups: Yeah, you’re the owner but I always tell them boys, I said, “Anytime I get to talk to Shaun I’m gonna tell him how good …” Like you said, you all got me addicted, man. It’s really, you all have bailed out more stuff that I’ve done and kept me cutting-edge. I tell everybody, I said, “Man, if I even did crappy prep work,” I said, “Keating’s Lab will help me compensate.”

Shaun Keating: Heck, yeah.

Dr. Toups: You all make me do better because you all are such a high-end lab. I said, “I’ve been with you all,” I said, “I don’t use any other lab.” Everybody comes in here and tries to hustle my business, I’m like, “Look there’s two things,” I said, “Cheap ain’t good and good ain’t cheap.” and I said. “I don’t even price shop. I’m praying for peace. I pay for peace of mind.”

Shaun Keating: Oh, dude.

Dr. Toups: That’s it. That’s it, man.

Shaun Keating: That is so awesome. Let’s end it, man. Let’s drop the mic now. That’s so cool, dude. That’s a testimonial that we’ll take all day long.

Dr. Toups: Oh, yeah. I mean, you can quote me on that 24/7. I said, any new dentist, anybody’s lab hunting, I’m like, “Look, I don’t lab hunt. I use Keating.” I said, “Any mistakes that we’ve ever had or miscommunication gets fixed instantly.” I said, “I don’t even worry about it.” I said, “I don’t even think I even put due dates on most of my lab scripts.”

Shaun Keating: We get them back in a couple days, baby, that’s how we do it.

Dr. Toups: That’s it, brother, that’s it, man.

Shaun Keating: We don’t mess around.

Dr. Toups: I’m pretty sure I’ve put about a half of Steve’s head full of gray hairs in implant pross. I throw him some stuff that’s kooky, man. I can rattle Steve up, man.

Shaun Keating: Now they, when they heard that Steve and Bob and Jim and these guys heard that I was doing Jason Toups, man, and they’re like, “Is Dr. Brant going to be there?” No, but they were talking about how just such a cool and great doctor, and you just crush it, dude. You’re really doing some intense freaking implant cases.

Dr. Toups: Yeah, man, thank you. Thank you, because-

Shaun Keating: You got it down, baby, and that’s probably a little Jerry Smith happening, just rubbing off on you.

Dr. Toups: Yeah, you know there’s a cowboy mentally of like, “Look, you’re going to have to kind of think outside the box sometimes,” and you’re going to end up providing for a patient some kind of service that it’s not ideal but it’s like, “Let’s go for it. Let’s dive in there.” Even with some of the ERA disk of extension partials that we’ll do or some kind of crazy implant-to-tooth hybrid. Don’t ever question me, it’s like, “Hey, let’s do it. Let’s go. Let’s get neck deep into it and just fight our way through it.” And, man, it’s working out. It’s smoking it.

Shaun Keating: And the best is yet to come, baby, that’s what I say, man. I mean, we do great stuff and that was yesterday, man. What are we doing for you today? Everyone’s a new patient every day and so we got to bring our A-game every day and we get excited. I mean, it’s like the play offs here every day and at the end of the week it’s like The Super Bowl. It’s like, “All right, baby, what do we do?” Yeah, it’s like-

Dr. Toups: Yeah. I’m with you, man. In fact, that’s usually when I call about, maybe about every three months, I’m like, “Hey, want something new? I say.

Shaun Keating: Exactly.

Dr. Toups: You know, if I’m still doing PSMs and we’re not supposed to, let me know but it’s, those KDZ lines you got man, that’s sweet. That’s some nice stuff, man. I like that. You said things are delivering good. Man, they look good. Yeah, when you get a second molar to look good, you know things are going right.

Shaun Keating: Exactly. And the stuff’s not breaking nowadays. We’ve eliminated a few variables in the last five years or so and it’s making it a little bit more predictable, our field, and it’s a beautiful thing. Man, I love dentistry, where it’s at right now, where it’s going and a lot more predictable dentistry and a lot more happy dentists out there because it can be so damn stressful, this job. And things aren’t going right and your lab can really bring a nightmare to you but then you got all sorts of … I’m just blown away at all the stuff a dentist has to do with their staff and then to run a dental practice. There’s a lot to it, and working with people every day. And there’s some crazy people out there, dude. I work on models, man. They don’t talk back to me and you guys are with live people. So that’s tough.

Dr. Toups: In your line of work, I mean, you’re part of it, but to be a dentist, you’re kind of a little off, you’re off your rocker, man. You’re a little cuckoo because, man, you’re dealing with a business that nothing’s a hundred percent success. Nothing you do is a hundred percent. Everything’s percent, 30 percent success, and if you can’t deal with that, you’re going to be in trouble. That’s why dentists are crazy. We got to sit there and go, “Hey, man, I just did a perfect crown.” Now the next thing you know it needs a root canal, root canal don’t work and it snaps in half. Oh oh, great. And the first thing the patient says is, “Yeah, your crown broke.” “No, my crown’s still in there, your tooth is on the inside.” Yeah.

Shaun Keating: Or what about with the implants, man, when they don’t [crosstalk 00:15:38] integrate got to find the sleeve or, it’s just like, “What the hell, how’re we going to retrieve it or what are we going to do or …” Oh management, but it’s all … Yeah, go ahead.

Dr. Toups: That’s a great point. Steve had to remake, I don’t know, I think it was three abutment fused to crowns and come to find out the damn implant was broken. I was like, “Now they breaking the implants.” So, yeah, I got that guy coming back in. I got to re-put that imp … I had to cut it out of his head.

Shaun Keating: But it’s all mind over matter, man.

Dr. Toups: But that’s just what lab’s all about, man. See, that’s what you all about. I love it.

Shaun Keating: Exactly.

Dr. Toups: You not afraid to say, “Let’s redo it and get it fixed up.” In fact, but you know what, one of the things that I’m probably going to need to work on, I’m still taking old-school impressions because I’m just too either lazy or just, it’s like, I’m not getting digital yet. I’m going to wait until I have to.

Shaun Keating: I got, hey, I probably got 80, 90 percent of my guys still not doing it. They’re still on impressions and I still do a ton of PFMs, and it works and that scanning impression material, it’s a neat thing but you know what? I still, man, I still love snapping impressions and everything else and in time it will come and it’s almost as you wait a little bit longer they’re kind of getting it tweaked even better and the prices are going down.

Shaun Keating: So I mean, not getting on, I wish I would have not got on the bandwagon when the first mills came out, the CAD/CAMs, because I bought them and they were obsolete a year later, two years later and those are 100,000 dollar mills and now my mills are so robust. They’re lasting for so many years and they’re a quarter of the cost and it’s just something, just wait. Wait is good when it comes to materials in dentistry that aren’t proven and especially for cost.

Dr. Toups: Especially, yeah, especially high-technology stuff. It’s like, you need to let that stuff work the kinks out because, yeah, I had a few friends dive into that CAD/CAM and I’m still … I don’t have one, like I said, my crown on the day doesn’t … My crown is when Keating gives it back that’s what my crown is. That’s my turn around time.

Shaun Keating: Oh, man, that’s awesome.

Dr. Toups: I just tell everybody, “Look, I’ve been doing it this way. It’s working. It’s not broken.” So just because something’s cooler and newer doesn’t mean it get rid of it all.

Shaun Keating: Exactly.

Dr. Toups: And that’s I guess my only concern with dentistry because I’m back to removable with Jim. He’s like, “Yeah, we’re going to start 3D printing them.” I’m thinking, “Man, I need old school. I need old school processing, Lucitone 199.” And he was like, “No, we don’t use that.” So he’s getting me on the new … Not impact, I forgot what it’s called. But the new acrylic and I’m like, “See that. Even I’m behind the eight ball already.”

Shaun Keating: No, I hear you. And those 3D printed dentures, we ain’t doing them because they’re crap right now, man. They’re crap. They’re brittle, they don’t look great and I’m not going to do them until they look good. “Oh, you can do them for cheaper.” It ain’t about that.

Dr. Toups: And it ain’t going to be cheaper either.

Shaun Keating: It ain’t going to be. “Oh, no. You can sell them for 150 a denture.” It’s like, “Well, the way these are looking I wouldn’t sell them for 100. They look horrible.” They’re not horrible but it’s just a certain material they have. And until that gets better man, I’m sitting on my hand.

Dr. Toups: That’s right.

Shaun Keating: Heck, I do a lot of work for the VA and stuff and, man, these VA guys all they want is IPN teeth. And those are kind of expensive. And I haven’t used an IPN teeth in years but lately I’m looking at these things and they’re freaking beautiful.

Dr. Toups: Yeah.

Shaun Keating: I love the contours, I love the aesthetics of them. No, it’s just … Yeah, sometimes you just got to wait on things, especially in this field, because it’s all how you handle the stress in your mind and everything.

Dr. Toups: That’s right.

Shaun Keating: You got to really use your mind and your head and making it a great day, and not getting in over your head where you’re doing products and materials that you shouldn’t be doing. So it’s just something, man.

Dr. Toups: That’s right. There’s too many things that can go wrong the normal way so trying to add technology and making it fancier and thinking you’re making it more efficient. It’s like, “Man, you’re just adding stress.” And just computers in general-

Shaun Keating: Yeah, I know. I’m not a computer guy.

Dr. Toups: … just drive you freaking bananas. I’m telling you, man. I got to do an upgrade at this office and I’m like, “Oh, that’s another ten grand that I got …” Every time they say, “Oh, this Windows ain’t working with this one. You need a new system software.” I’m like, “Oh God. That’s always thousands.

Shaun Keating: Oh, man. I’ve got several guys in my IT department. They’re telling me I need this and that. It’s like, I can’t even turn on my computer. But the way we’re going digital. But yeah, it’s so freaking … And we get hacked so many times a day but we have all this software now, spyware. And you got guys from all these countries trying to get into All Keating Dental. So, I’m going, “What the heck they’re going to get,” but it’s just …

Dr. Toups: I don’t know either. They can hack me all they want. I’m saying, “You want some patients x-rays and some billing information, you can go ahead and have it.”

Shaun Keating: Just don’t hit my iPhone with all my pics. We’re going to have to delete those from my wife pics.

Dr. Toups: Yeah. Oh, Lord, I got some of those slipped in there, huh?

Shaun Keating: No, I don’t. “I’m just kidding, Shannon. I don’t have anymore on there, baby.” No.

Dr. Toups: “I deleted them.”

Shaun Keating: Okay. Well, heck, let’s stop getting silly here and let’s get a little dental up.

Dr. Toups: All right.

Shaun Keating: So, tell me Dr. Toups, why did you get into dentistry and at what point did you think, “I want to be a dentist.”

Dr. Toups: Well, my dad’s a dentist. He’s the original Brent Toups, I’m the second Brent Toups. And back in 1998, I had a daughter and I was an artist working in advertising design and my dad was a dentist. And I realized that financially I was like, “This is kind of a dead end.”

Dr. Toups: And I did a little soul searching. I was like, “You know, dad always told me this business was crazy but he’s raised me as a dentist.” And I saw the financial success and I saw that he gets to give the person the service.

Dr. Toups: And I didn’t like being in advertising. So decided that I would go back to school. And dad support, my wife support. Took me two years to get into dental school, four years out, old guy going back to school. And say 2005, 2006, that’s when Katrina hit and I was a senior.

Shaun Keating: Oh, you’re kidding.

Dr. Toups: Met up with Carl Braugh and worked for dad for about a year. Bought dad out and dad started working for me. And then he taught me a bunch of this stuff from the ERA, the locator stuff. I started bringing in implants into the practice as soon as …

Dr. Toups: That’s the Jerry Smith angle. And Jerry told me from the beginning, he said, “As soon as the day you graduate,” he said, “You start taking as much implant courses as you want.”

Dr. Toups: So having a child and seeing life is kind of blossom in front of you and open up some doors. I didn’t want my daughter to have to choose between a college education or a wedding. I was like, “No, you get to have both.” So daddy’s going to go ahead and dental up, as you say. I love it, dental up and let’s do it.

Shaun Keating: Dental up, baby.

Dr. Toups: Now I have three daughters so now it’s three damn weddings. You have to cut me a deal on all these crowns, brother.

Shaun Keating: You got to pay for those weddings, don’t you?

Dr. Toups: That’s it, management, that’s it. That’s how I got started. Daddy kind of … Hee paved the road and I blacktopped it-

Shaun Keating: That’s so awesome.

Dr. Toups: … because he had a machine going over here. Then I convinced my sister to do the same thing after she was having some career issues and she didn’t know what she wanted to do, and she wanted to be a hygienist. And I said, “Look, why don’t you got to school to be the dentist.”

Shaun Keating: How cool is that?

Dr. Toups: “You can do whatever you want. You can go hardcore, you can go lightweight and do whatever you want.” I said, “You pick your own path. You don’t have to follow in what me and dad do.”

Dr. Toups: And then me bringing implants into a practice that was predominately removeable and now fixed and everything. So, that’s the start of it. That’s how I got started with that.

Shaun Keating: That’s a great story now. Younger sister, older sister?

Dr. Toups: I’m the oldest of three. My sister is the second. And I have a brother in between me and here. And he’s the one that owns the famous restaurant in New Orleans, Toups Meter and Toups South. He’s been on Food Network, Isaac Toups. I’ll plug in a little plug just in case somebody’s looking that up.

Shaun Keating: Yeah. We’ll put that on our show notes, dude. Now we’re talking, man. He’s got a restaurant.

Dr. Toups: Yeah, Isaac was on Food Network a few years back and he has two restaurants in New Orleans. So anybody listening to this, you get in New Orleans, just think of Toups. He’s got two restaurants, you can’t go wrong because it will blow you away. He’ll give you the meat sweats for a week.

Shaun Keating: Yeah, I’m there, dude.

Dr. Toups: And then my sister, four years after him. And then we have another baby brother who’s up in Oregon doing his own thing too.

Shaun Keating: How cool is that, man? That’s so awesome. I see you got an art degree too, and that’s got to help you in this field for sure.

Dr. Toups: That sure did. In fact, that’s what everybody asks me if I’m still doing art. And I was like, “You wouldn’t believe how much art I’m doing in the mouth.” From composites to crowns to dentures removal. I said, “It all has its own art.”

Dr. Toups: It’s really helped. The hand skills, the muscle memory, the work in seeing the fine details. That really helped me out in dental school. Back when I was in college and going to school and I would flunk out or cut up, daddy would through me in the dental lab. So see, I’m an ex-lab rat myself.

Shaun Keating: Oh, I know you are, man.

Dr. Toups: Pouring out bottles and doing all that and processing dentures. So I had a real good background in the removable part of dentistry too. So that brought a very good advantage to my dental career.

Shaun Keating: Oh, that’s so huge to have that background to bring it in to fix. To have that removable aspect.

Dr. Toups: Oh, yeah.

Shaun Keating: Because a lot of guys have that fix aspect but they don’t really have the concept of removable. And if you’re going to be doing combo cases, man, you really kind of almost need the reverse. Know more about removal than fix because the fix is pretty damn easy.

Dr. Toups: That’s right. Exactly. You nailed it on the head.

Shaun Keating: That removable, like you’re saying, you got ERA attatchers, you got so many different aspects how intracoronal, extracoronal … I mean, there’s a lot of ways to cut that prep, and there’s a lot of way of making that removable part of that fixed.

Dr. Toups: That’s right, you nailed it.

Shaun Keating: And you just got it down, baby. And you’re still young, you’re going to be crushed even more.

Shaun Keating: Tell me a little bit about your practice layout, what do you got, how many per operatories, and what kind of staff?

Dr. Toups: Yeah, I’ll give you a quick little history. Dad had two practices, he had a little two-chair family practice in a little town outside of Lafayette, Louisiana called Rayne. And then he actually bought a [Diger 00:26:26] mill and-

Shaun Keating: Beautiful.

Dr. Toups: … in Lafayette. And then when he sort of realized in the late 80s is that, “Hey, I could just … Why don’t I just work out of one place.” So, he took a Diger mill and made it a family practice so he did a lot of Medicaid dentures, a lot of dentures.

Dr. Toups: So when I bought it, I got rid of the denture word and I just called it Toups Family Dentistry. So it’s still laid out like that, so I have six operatories that are open and I’m just one dentist and I have actually kind of shortened it up to … I don’t work all six at one time, I started to get a little too thinned out and I run a bunch of hygienes.

Shaun Keating: Good for you.

Dr. Toups: So that’s how I got it laid out. I got three assistants, I’ve got two office managers in the front and I have a full-time hygienist and I have one part-time.

Shaun Keating: No kidding. Now what about, I’m getting cases from all three Toups. Your sister, she went there at all?

Dr. Toups: Yeah.

Shaun Keating: Or is that another practice?

Dr. Toups: Yeah, me daddy and Celeste, my sister, we all worked at the same time.

Shaun Keating: Okay.

Dr. Toups: So when you all switched to the … you all started using the ID codes on there we didn’t know. So we were just sending crowns with the same lab script and we weren’t changing the name on it. So yeah, dad pretty much retired probably about two or three years ago. He finally let his license go this year. So that way we can’t use him.

Dr. Toups: My sister’s actually with Modern Dentistry, it’s a chain. They might be nationwide, I’m not familiar with the corporate company. But she still might be sending you all cases. But I don’t know, she’s not sending through here. I don’t know, she might be sending them from-

Shaun Keating: Yeah, I think she is. Bob is telling me she is. But hey, she’s going to get a ton of experience there at that kind of a practice-

Dr. Toups: Oh, yeah.

Shaun Keating: … for sure. And then you never know, have her work on her chops and just get her to self-dialed in and then maybe down the line bring her on board and she can be helping you out, you know, whatever.

Dr. Toups: Oh yeah, she’s a owner now so now she’s in the big dips. So I was like, “O-oh, once you become owners, then you’re hooked. Now you’re in trouble.”

Shaun Keating: Yeah, that’s how they get it … I love it when my [inaudible 00:28:24], you know, they have children or they buy a car, buy the home. I love it because I just know that’s what happened to me, you know, you got to work. You got that fire in the belly.

Dr. Toups: Now you got to work. That’s right, you’re not going anywhere now.

Shaun Keating: That fire in the belly, man.

Dr. Toups: That’s good.

Shaun Keating: So tell me a little but how you’re driving people to your practice, your marketing. Are you doing mailers, are you doing any social media? Tell me a little bit about that if you could.

Dr. Toups: I do the social media thing. One of my office managers we brought in, one was an advertising rep, and she was big on Instagram, Facebook. So we do the promotions, we run through that. Word-of-mouth in South Louisiana is still the big deal. If you get the matriarchs of the family you end up locking down that whole family. And that’s pretty much my bread and butter. Every person that walks in here, that person becomes and advertise, that person becomes a referral.

Dr. Toups: We did get in network with a few insurances brought in a little extra business. I’m still just one dentist working out of six chairs so it’s like, I can’t take on too many patients. But we accept anything that walks through the door, I will find a way to do something for you. That philosophy is like … They don’t leave here without me doing something and if I got to refer …

Dr. Toups: It’s a big deal. You know, a wisdom tooth is down there but under the neck, or something like that, I’m not going to go after … Or like an implant that … In fact, the case here I just did was one of my first digital x-ray cases on a doctor friend of mine. He had just one of those S-curved lower jaws, I was like, “I ain’t doing that implant doc, you’re going to the surgeon.” And the surgeon said, “[inaudible 00:29:55] you all, I’m about to deliver that tomorrow.”

Shaun Keating: Oh, you’re kidding. Unbelievable. So, what do you send out, like you don’t like doing? Are you doing endo, are you referring those out?

Dr. Toups: Oh yeah, I do all endo. I’m a big guy, I’m six foot four, I’m 275 pounds. So I’ve got these big old hands and I can’t go second molar root canal. I just did one in fact before I picked up the phone call, that was why I was late taking up the Podcast. Is that I am trying to finish this second molar and I was like, “Why am I doing this? My fingers are so … I can’t get back there.” But it was kind of angled towards me so I did it.

Dr. Toups: But second molar endo, you know, if I can’t get [inaudible 00:30:31] I refer it out. And any kind of wisdom tooth. The last time I got neck deep in a wisdom tooth and had to call us oral surgeon, was this Friday. And I said, “I ran out of [inaudible 00:30:41] to cut it,” and I said, “That’s enough horizontal impact at wisdom teeth.”

Dr. Toups: And implants for sinus lifts or complicated extractions, surgical placement of implants. I do the easy implants, I do the easy root canals.

Shaun Keating: Good for you.

Dr. Toups: Yeah, your most of pros work, fixed or removable, I do myself. And not even my dentures, I set my own teeth. And you talked about those IPNTs, I use [Bobland 00:31:05], that’s my top of the line set and then I use maybe classic for … My inexpensive set when I have to make it.

Dr. Toups: So I do all my own repairs but rebases and relines … That’s what me and Jim were talking about, is that why I’m going to start using you all pretty much for my processing. As soon as my old guy up here in Louisiana gives it up.

Shaun Keating: Yeah, they are far and few between. I’m having a hell of a time trying to get … Because a removal’s growing so much and I’m trying to reach out to people all from around the world, money-wise. And they’re just kind of gone. And it’s almost like we’ve got to train from within and it takes quite a bit, a couple of years, to get someone trained up that is halfway decent.

Dr. Toups: I feel bad for you because I tried to hustle a few from out of school to try to train them in just removable, but it’s hard to offer them money because I’m still on the crown and bridge work. The big money, you know, is probably in the crown and bridge and having somebody want to take over in a removable prosthetics, it just not a big draw. So I feel your pain, brother, because we have a dilemma down here in Louisiana.

Shaun Keating: Yeah, no. And it’s everywhere, really. I mean, any good lab that really has a good removable department, they’re going to be busy because they are few and far between and they’re not training them anymore and for someone to get into the field of removable, it’s a lot of acrylic, a lot of shit flying through the air. And it just tough, man. It’s a tough job. A technician is tough job, put your head down on a bench all day and just kind of grind it out and-

Dr. Toups: That’s right.

Shaun Keating: … your neck, your wrist. There’s a lot of little things that kind of creep up on you after 20, 30 years. So what about on your CE journey, what are you like? Any in particular that you’re going to or any in the past that you could give us some recommendations?

Dr. Toups: I tell you what, it’s funny how crown and bridge … I need to come to California just to come visit and come party with you all and then we’ll do some CE. We’ll get somebody to tell me something about them.

Shaun Keating: We do that here. We’ll get you out for sure, man. I’d love to party with you.

Dr. Toups: Yeah, I don’t know how good we’re going to be the next day but you know, we’ll have a good time. But yeah, no, I tried to take and endo course, I really try to keep my endo game. That’s borderline scientific and witchcraft, you know voodoo and … Root canals are crazy.

Shaun Keating: Yeah, they are.

Dr. Toups: I try to take a lot of big class CE, I really like to get a lot of information in. If you’re going to hold my attention you’re going to have to impress me.

Shaun Keating: Yeah, I’m the same way, man. I’ll lose you. I have a dude came in for a occlusion course, and I had about 30 people in the [inaudible 00:33:57] room, and he talked for several hours. And after about 20 minutes I’m like, “Dude, I’m lost on this.” And that’s the worse on going on a occlusion freaking course, man. That’s like, “Aah, put your fingers on the chop board dude, because it’s freaking brutal.”

Shaun Keating: But a lot of those occlusion courses, you go take them and then they’re going to want you to buy a weekend course. You’re going to go want to buy a 3,000 dollar SAM articulator and you’re going to start doing a fully adjustable articulators on single units. Qualibrate the valve. [crosstalk 00:34:32]

Dr. Toups: [crosstalk 00:34:31] I hate to sound primitive but it’s like, if you do enough removable, enough crown and bridge, you figure out occlusion, there’s no silver bullet with this stuff. Each patient is different. And if you’re doing this successfully for more than 10 years, you got it figured out. You got it, you know, you just got to …

Dr. Toups: You know, I see a lot of these young kids in here struggling with this business, and I’m like, “Man, you could …” I don’t know, I think dad helped pave the way,[ crosstalk 00:35:01]

Shaun Keating: That old mushbite comes in handy. That’s like the best thing … An old-timer, doctor [Enray 00:35:08] up on Rhode Island, taught me about that. We’re doing upper lower roundies and stuff and we have a study models to begin with so we have that to work with. So we can kind of go off the tissue areas, the stuff like that, when we get the final impressions. But you know, that mushbite, let’s just get that right over Jim, let’s collapse it, let’s see if he’s in a class one two naturally.

Shaun Keating: And then I can open up accordingly, I know how much … You know, three, four mil. You got the ideal Curve of Spee, Curve of Wilsons, you get the compensating curve. It’s all about removable, man. But you can get super scientific and do all this occlusion courses and measuring everything and it works, but there’s lots of ways to skin a cat.

Dr. Toups: Yeah man, I do about three or four dentures a week so it’s like, I’m going to tell you, the denture occlusion you get it comfortable, you know how to work with this stuff, it opens up all the doors, man.

Shaun Keating: It really does. It really does.

Dr. Toups: It does man, yeah.

Shaun Keating: And that’s why you’re the MacGyver of everything. But-

Dr. Toups: Oh yeah, but I’m … MacGyver, that’s me, right there. I’m going to throw two pork chops in your mouth and try and get you to chew with that. I can make it work, brother.

Shaun Keating: Oh, I know. And you look like a middle linebacker for the LOC Tigers, baby.

Dr. Toups: That’s right, they don’t mess with me after I deliver. I’m like, “Dang, they ain’t going to piss me off.”

Shaun Keating: Dude, what a great Podcast. Dr. Toups, I can’t thank you enough, dude. God bless-

Dr. Toups: No man, I appreciate you talking with me, Shaun.

Shaun Keating: Aah, God bless you and your family. And man, anything we could do ever. If you ever need a help on a case when a patient’s down on their luck and we got to do some heroics and stuff like that, and they’re down on their luck and money, hey, we’ll help and donate our services. Just let me know, you’ve been with so long and we’re indebted to you so much just on all the work and just being a great guy and thank you so much for the kind words for the lab.

Dr. Toups: Yeah thank you too, Shaun. It’s been great talking to you and you all keep up the good work. Tell Bob and Steve and Jim and all everybody who’s bailed me out of so much trouble, tell them thank you. Tell them I start to get those [inaudible 00:37:09] guys a little bit better too, brother.

Shaun Keating: Thanks again, alright dude. Thanks again, Dr. Toups.

Dr. Toups: Alright brother.

Shaun Keating: Alright baby.

Dr. Toups: Okay Shaun, talk to you later.

Shaun Keating: Talk to you soon.

Dr. Toups: Alright man.

Shaun Keating: Bye-bye.

Dr. Toups: Bye-bye.

Host: Thanks for joining us on the Dental Up Podcast show this week. Make to sure to follow us on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter or search the Dental Up Podcast on iTunes for our weekly feed. Don’t forget to visit keatingdentallab.com/promo for exclusive offers. Keating Dental Lab is a full service dental laboratory and we’re nationwide. We would love for you to send us a case so we can show you the Keating difference. If you dig what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and we’ll be back next week.