Our guest this week is Dr. David Doan, DDS He received his undergraduate degree from UC Irvine and a DDS Degree from the University of California of San Francisco. He also completed a one-year residency program at McCallen Air Force Base in Sacramento.
Host: Ladies and gentlemen, this is the Dental Up podcast, brought to you by Keating Dental Lab, a full service, award winning dental laboratory. Each week, you’ll learn tips and techniques from real world dentists. Bringing you in depth interviews, motivating stories, current events and sports. Here’s your host, Shaun Keating.
Shaun Keating: Hey everyone, Shaun here. Welcome to another episode of the Dental Up podcast. Our guest this week received his undergraduate degree from UC Irvine and a DDS degree from the University of California of San Francisco. He completed a one year residency program at McClellan Air Force base in Sacramento and he’s currently practicing in Norwalk, California. Please welcome Dr. David Doan, DDS. How’s it going, Dr. Doan?
Dr. David Doan: Pretty good, thanks, Shaun, for having me.
Shaun Keating: This is so cool you’re here, man. Been waiting for you, man. It was like 1:30, let’s get it going. It’s almost time to get on home. Nah, thank you so much, man. I appreciate you spending the time, you know, taking it out of your day. I know how busy you are and thank you. We actually have you here at the lab, so we’re looking right at each other.
Dr. David Doan: Yeah.
Shaun Keating: That’s so cool, man. How did you hear about our lab? Tell me a little bit about that real quick.
Dr. David Doan: Yeah. The practice that I purchased, they’ve been using you as one of the dental labs that they send all their crown works to.
Shaun Keating: Okay.
Dr. David Doan: And so the previous owner, he had mentioned that there’s the least amount of adjustments that needed to be made once the crown comes back to us and that makes our … his life, a lot easier. There are a lot of dental labs out there that will be a lot cheaper as far as their fees go, but at the end of the day, if you don’t have to send something back to the lab, patients are happy, they don’t have to come back, it’s a win-win and it’s worth it.
Shaun Keating: That’s like a testimonial right there, baby. Let’s drop the mic and we’re done. No. That’s so cool, dude. I love it to where … you know, I always start off with sports. Let’s talk a little bit about sports. I didn’t know you went to UC Irvine and that’s just right down the road from us here.
Dr. David Doan: Yeah.
Shaun Keating: University California Irvine. Ant Eater, huh?
Dr. David Doan: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yep.
Shaun Keating: So dude, you have to be really smart. A lot of smart guys can only get in over there. It’s like a … it’s a waiting list too, from what I hear. But it’s just tough. But dude, that’s so cool. But the football, Rams are out there. Have you went up and watched them at all? It’s pretty cool, man. They’re out there by the old soccer field.
Dr. David Doan: You know, that’s what I heard when they started to … when they moved here. Then they had to find a place to kind of practice that while they were building their stadium in Inglewood.
Shaun Keating: Yes.
Dr. David Doan: You know, and I used to work in Inglewood before I purchased the practice and there were sightings of like where they’re going to practice and I had some friends that would travel down to the UC Irvine campus just to get a glimpse of the Rams.
Shaun Keating: Yeah, that’s so neat, dude. I was in Kansas City this morning at 5:00 and getting on a plane and we came in through LAX and man, I took a picture of the stadium and it’s almost … it’s not almost done, I’d say it’s probably 60, 70%, but it’s such a trip to see it right there next to the fabulous Forum and they redid … the Madison Square Garden guys came in and bought that thing and that kind of stayed dormant for awhile. It wasn’t really that good after the Lakers left to Staples, but man, they really cleaned that up inside. It’s an all new sound system. So you’ve got the Forum there and then you’re going to have this big old stadium. So we’re so excited.
Shaun Keating: Heck, I think we’ve got a game next Thursday starting and I think, oh, we’ve got one tomorrow night, I think. I think we got the Bears and maybe the Ravens or something, but then next Thursday night … it’s all preseason, but next Thursday we got like a double header. Like two different teams are playing. Four teams are playing, you know, I’m not sure who they are, but I’m just excited, man.
Thursday night, party at the pizza parlor. That’s so … get excited to go watch football and eat pizza and drink some Bud Light, because Bud Light has drinkability.
Shaun Keating: So dude, so football team, who do you like? Don’t just say the Rams. You like … who’s your team or?
Dr.David Doan: Yeah. To be honest, I’m more of a basketball guy. Shaun Keating: Oh, okay. Who do you like in basketball?
Dr. David Doan: The Lakers, of course.
Shaun Keating: Lakers. Can you believe freaking LeBron is here, man.
Dr. David Doan: So the latest rumor is that Kobe may come back out of retirement and that they were saying that Shaq, he mentioned that briefly when someone just interviewed him and Shaq said, “I heard Kobe may come back to play with LeBron.”
Shaun Keating: What?
Dr. David Doan: So I don’t know, just a rumor.
Shaun Keating: Could you imagine that? Because he could come in for … oh, he’ll probably take money, but his achilles is probably healed so much better than what it was.
Dr. David Doan: Yeah.
Shaun Keating: I mean, you get through that and he’s so ripped lately. I mean, he’s doing his own business. He’s a business guy now. He bought himself a big old building out in Newport and he’s just trying to make money, but he is chiseled and probably the best condition. He looked flabby before, you know, towards the end of his career. He was nursing that big old injury and he … can you imagine him putting up 20 or so a night and just being there with LeBron and all the other youngsters. I don’t know, I never heard … I haven’t heard that one, but that would be … that would be kind of neat. You imagine that, LeBron and Kobe, baby.
Dr. David Doan: Yeah, LeBron is a good guy. Did you hear what he did back in Cleveland?
Shaun Keating: No.
Dr. David Doan: No? Okay, so where he grew up, the city he grew up in, he started a school. A school where he funds the entire thing for kids who are from impoverished communities.
Shaun Keating: Oh, beautiful.
Dr. David Doan: And he provides them education starting from elementary school. He feeds them food, because you have to qualify income-wise or something like that, and so he provides them food, tuition, and if they are able to get into a desired college school, he will pay their tuition.
Shaun Keating: Oh, look at that.
Dr. David Doan: And that was a promise that he made, when he made it big, and with the … I don’t know what the contract was in LA, but he said, you know, even though he’s playing in LA, he knows where his roots are and home to him will always be his hometown and that’s where he created his school. It’s called I Promise.
Shaun Keating: Oh, look at that.
Dr. David Doan: Yeah.
Shaun Keating: And you know, I never liked him so much, because he was just always beating us and beating other teams and he’s just so competitive. Now that he’s a Laker, I love the dude, you know?
Dr. David Doan: Yeah.
Shaun Keating: But for him to do that, you know, and especially- Dr.David Doan: That’s big.
Shaun Keating: The people in Ohio, you know, they supported him and then he left to Miami and that was a tough situation.
Dr. David Doan: And they were angry and upset.
Shaun Keating: And then he came back, took them to the finals four years in a row. So he did his part, but to go above and beyond that to help these at risk kids, that’s so good. And he’s going to have … he can probably do it, because where he’s at there in LA, like the Inglewood’s and Compton’s and some of the areas there, they could use the help too.
Dr. David Doan: They could use help, yeah.
Shaun Keating: I mean, because we have a lot of areas. I mean, you go two blocks off of Disneyland here in Anaheim, you’ve got some of the biggest barrios and gangs, same thing. And every city, I think, has it and it’s just … yeah, that’s neat that he does that. I mean, that pulls at heartstrings for people that aren’t such sports fans. That when they hear that, that’s just a good humanitarian thing to do there. So that’s awesome. Good for him, man. Well, good job. So yeah, we got Lakers, baseball, we’re kind of … we’re Angels fans here, but they’re kind of … it’s kind of terrible.
Shaun Keating: Baseball is so boring lately. It’s like no one is hitting the damn ball and it’s strike outs every game. It’s like yawn. Hello. We need some activities, man. Okay, I’ll shut up now and let’s Dental Up. So tell me, Dr. Doan, why did you get into dentistry and at what point did you think, “I want to be a dentist,”?
Dr. David Doan: All right. So growing up in an Asian family, you have a lot of expectations and a lot of your followers, listeners, can probably relate to this where when you’re
growing up in this type of Asian family, you are expected to either be a lawyer, a doctor, an accountant, engineer, something that is like a high paying, high skilled job.
Shaun Keating: Yes.
Dr. David Doan: And so I was probably pre-conditioned, pre-brainwashed that I would become some type of physician, some type of surgeon of some sort. So throughout my whole life, they always told me, “Study hard,” which I did. You know, took all these AP classes in high school so you can get the college credits, which I did. I think my senior year I was taking seven AP courses.
Shaun Keating: Can you believe that?
Dr. David Doan: It did help me, don’t get me wrong. I got sophomore standing, so I was able to get the classes that I wanted earlier. You know, when you’re registering for classes, so that definitely helped and you didn’t fall behind because you couldn’t get the class that you wanted. You know, the biology class that you needed for your major. So yeah, I’ll be honest, I was pre-med.
Shaun Keating: Okay.
Dr. David Doan: All throughout high school and college and when I got there, I was a biology major. I think that’s where everyone just goes into that major because if you want to become a doctor, like that’s the major you choose.
Shaun Keating: Yeah.
Dr. David Doan: I mean, you can choose chemistry. You can choose biochemistry. You can choose any science field out there and still apply. As long as you have the prerequisites for grad school, you can move forward.
Shaun Keating: Yes.
Dr. David Doan: You know, I took the MCATS a couple times. I think twice or something like that. I scored decent. And at the same time, I was working in pharmacy, just to pay off books and whatnot. My mom is a pharmacist. She helped me get a job in Brea, so not too far from here. So I was doing the school thing and then a part time job and seeing that field of pharmacy, I was exposed to it.
Shaun Keating: Yeah.
Dr. David Doan: My mom provided us with a really great life. That was a possibility. But after working the retail scene, it was not for me. So I was exposed to it. I found myself doing a lot of curricular activities, a lot of pre-med clubs on school campuses, just exposed myself to just being a really good candidate for med school. And then after awhile, I ended up applying for med school. I got wait listed at a couple of schools one year.
Dr. David Doan: And then it wasn’t until after I graduated, I’m like, “You know what? I don’t think I want to be on call.” After you go home from work, I don’t want to be on call. I don’t want to be called in at 3:00 in the morning.
Shaun Keating: Exactly.
Dr. David Doan: At the same time, after you finish grad school, you do your internship and in that first year, you have to work 80 hours a week just to get by through that first year. And I’m like, I could barely do 40 hours. I need my sleep, you know?
Shaun Keating: Exactly.
Dr. David Doan: So then I was like, you know what? Maybe medicine is not the right thing for me. And I don’t have anybody in my family that was a dentist. They’re all doctors. Oncologists, OBs and lawyers and whatnot, so I didn’t really have anyone to talk to. And so shortly after talking to a few friends and some family members, I found out that one of my buddies, his dad was a dentist.
Shaun Keating: Oh, okay.
Dr. David Doan: My mom’s best friend … I’m sorry, my mom’s best friend, her husband was a dentist. The only dentist that I had being exposed to was my family dentist growing up and then my orthodontist and I knew my orthodontist had a great life. He was a happy guy. He knew everything that was going on in my life during high school when I had braces, but low and behold, after finding out that there were these other dentists within like a third degree reach, I reached out to them and I just said, “You know what? Let me see what this is all about.” And I had one guy in our circle of friends when I went to UCI. He was always pre-dental, because his dad was the dentist there.
Shaun Keating: Okay.
Dr. David Doan: And he always told me, “David, come over to the dark side. Join me. I mean, I know all of our friends are pre-med and all, but come over.” And I was like, “Nah, it’s not for me,” you know. “I don’t think I could see teeth all day.” At the end of it, after I finished UCI, I looked into it and the dentist that was the husband of my mom’s best friend, I went out to his office in Inglewood. He graduated from Loma Linda. He was passionate about what he did.
Shaun Keating: Oh, yeah.
Dr. David Doan: And so I was just a fly on the wall at his office and he taught me everything that he wanted to teach me about dentistry and it was a lot of fun. And I did this all
on my own, where I traveled from where I lived at the time in Yorba Linda and went all the way to Inglewood maybe like once or twice a week. I wasn’t getting paid for any of this stuff. I was enjoying it. The hour drive and I was like, you know what, when I came to the senses that this is what I wanted to pursue. It was a big thing talking to my parents, because my parents expected a certain career path for me and at the end of the day, I sat them down and I said, “I know you guys invested in me to … and you guys were wanting me to be that doctor, the big doctor with the MD behind his name,” and I told them, you know, “I think that’s not for me. What I really enjoy doing right now is maybe I want to pursue dentistry.”
Dr. David Doan: You know, and they were actually very supportive, surprisingly. I thought that they were going to hound on me like, “No, you don’t want to do that,” but they were very supportive and I took the DATs right after college. I wasn’t prepped for it, by no means. I studied for maybe like two months. Took the test, did really, really well, applied and then, you know, that’s what started my dental pathway.
Shaun Keating: That’s a great story. That’s really cool. What about … did you go to high school in Irvine or no?
Dr.David Doan: I went to high school in Anaheim, Esperanza High School. Shaun Keating: Oh, Esperanza.
Dr.David Doan: So just down the way, yeah. Good football team, yeah.
Shaun Keating: Pretty good football team. Those boys are mean out there.
Dr. David Doan: Yeah, yeah.
Shaun Keating: They are always up there. So that’s cool. What about UCI? What was that like? What’s it like going there? I mean, it’s pretty intense, isn’t it? Pretty tough or?
Dr. David Doan: Yeah. I remember when we first started off, again, there are so many majors that you can go in to when you are pre-dental or pre-medicine, but just within the biology field, the biology major, I remember if you were taking the undergraduate prerequisites for your bio major, I think it’s called Bio 94. And there was 1200 students in three different teachers who taught that Bio 94 class. So out of 1200, that’s what we started off with in that major, right? At the end of four years, I believe the class that we graduated who stayed within that major and people who transferred into the bio major, I think it was roughly around 400 people. So the filter that went, you know, it took one third to finally finish with what they started or what they converted to, yeah.
Shaun Keating: That’s a trip. And then what about … that’s not UOP where you went to college?
Dr. David Doan: No, no, UCSF.
Shaun Keating: Okay.
Dr. David Doan: The real San Francisco school. Sorry.
Shaun Keating: What about … tell me a little bit about that journey. What was that like getting in there? Were your instructors cool? Did you have a good experience? Tell me a little bit about that.
Dr. David Doan: Let me segue into that there. Let me give you some background information. You know, when I applied, I thought I had really great scores. So I only applied to like five or six schools, but when I applied, my application went in, I believe in September. You know, the application process starts in June. It’s an open enrollment, is what they call it. A rolling admissions process.
Shaun Keating: Okay.
Dr. David Doan: So if you get into June and there are 100 seats available, you have a bigger chance … your probability is better, right?
Shaun Keating: Yeah.
Dr. David Doan: But if the cycle ends in December, so at the end … they start giving out their admission seats, I think December 1st or something like that. So if they already handed out and students who have already been accepted calls the school and takes that acceptance seat, then now you’re fighting for 12 remaining seats. So your probability goes down, right? So for me, I thought I had really great scores. I still do. But I only applied to like five or six schools and when it went through, it as in September. And I thought, you know what? I wanted this one letter from my research advisor at UCI and I asked for it in September. In October she went on maternity leave. November she had the baby. December, she finally got it in to the AADSAS program that you submit your application.
Shaun Keating: Okay.
Dr. David Doan: And so schools will not look at your application file until it’s entirely complete. So this isn’t advice that I can give to all your listeners. If you are stuck in that situation, just submit it as is and then submit your whatever remaining documents that you have, a letter of recommendation from anybody, and then just submit it to the schools individually. At least your application file within AADSAS is closed. They can submit it to all the schools that you paid to submit it to and then, you know, if it’s going to cost you … you know, if you applied to 10 schools, it’ll cost you the shipping charges up to 10 different schools. Hey, it’s better to be in that earlier open enrollment process.
Shaun Keating: Like around June instead of coming in, in December.
Dr. David Doan: Yeah. So that’s what happened. My application closed in December and I did get some interviews and I did get waitlisted. Now, I didn’t get pulled off that wait list and I’m like, dang, you know, this sucks. I have to wait a whole other year.
But I learned from it and my parents were like, maybe, you know, like you were too cocky. You should apply to more schools. Apply to some backup schools. And maybe it’s your interviewing style. You know, and I told them, no, mom, dad, I love talking to people. It’s not that, trust me.
Dr. David Doan: And second go around, everything went in June 1st and if the biggest advice that I could give to your listeners, again, the second nugget, is what I’m going to call it, is to apply early. Once you’re in early, and my application did not change. I did not change any essays. I did not change a single thing. I didn’t take the DATs a second time. I submitted everything on the first day that it opened and the only difference was I applied to more backup schools, just in case.
Dr. David Doan: When I went to these interviews, I think out of the 13 schools I got an interview from or I applied to, 11 I got … I got interviews to 11 schools. Of the 11, I went to six interviews and I got into all of them. So the funny thing is when I went on these interviews, these dental schools would say, “Dave, we see your application from last year and we have your application from this year. Why do you think you didn’t get in?” And I told them my theory in the open admissions process, the rolling admissions process, and sure enough they said, “You know what? With your numbers, your GPA and your score, you should have gotten in and we don’t know why you didn’t get in,” but the timing of it really was the key factor.
Shaun Keating: Yeah, absolutely.
Dr.David Doan: So again, that second nugget, apply early guys. Big, big key. Shaun Keating: Absolutely. No, that’s awesome.
Dr. David Doan: Oh, sorry, and going into San Francisco, my experience there was great. The faculty up there was so much fun. Learned a lot. I think everyone’s experience in dental school is … it’s going to be a little bit different, because it’s going to be dependent on which faculty are there and the school board or whoever, HR, whoever hires on these dentists, you’re never going to know who is going to be there because there’s a lot of volunteer faculty.
Shaun Keating: Oh, I bet.
Dr. David Doan: And some of them will make your experience different than others. Some of them are more business minded, so they’ll give you that background in that aspect. There are some that are more keen on like a technique or a lab technique or and so again, everyone’s experience is going to be different, but I think most importantly it’s the class that you come in with.
Shaun Keating: Yeah.
Dr. David Doan: Which you have no control over. That’s the admissions process. The students that interview you, the faculty that interview you, right?
Shaun Keating: Yep.
Dr. David Doan: And so luckily, my class, we were all very well rounded and so we had so much fun. After the first year, I think spring break, we went on a trip to Vegas for someone’s birthday. There was like 30 of us in the club or something like that, you know, and then I think after our first summer, a group of us, there was like six of us, we did a trip to Hong Kong and Thailand and we all flew from all of our different vacations during that first summer, but we all met up in Thailand and we did our thing in two weeks.
Shaun Keating: No kidding.
Dr. David Doan: So it was a lot of fun, but everyone’s experience is going to be different. I say be open minded to who you meet, just be very open, because you have to be with your peers for the next four years.
Shaun Keating: Yeah.
Dr. David Doan: You don’t want to burn bridges.
Shaun Keating: How many graduated in your class? Do you remember at all?
Dr. David Doan: Yeah. We started off with 86 and then I think we finished with 82. So there were only a few that dropped out. Yeah.
Shaun Keating: Yeah. Do you stay in touch with them anymore?
Dr. David Doan: Unfortunately most of them are up north. So most of them came from NorCal and so they stayed up. There was a few of us down here and some of them moved down here that weren’t from down here, but I do stay in touch with just a few. However, you know, what was i going to say here? I think another important thing when choosing a school is where you’re going to end up.
Shaun Keating: Yes.
Dr. David Doan: Okay? Think about where you want to end up, because when you go to that school, I had great networks within my faculty that I got to know really, really well. My mentors, the people who wrote me letters of rec and those are the … and the faculty members who work in the surrounding cities, right? So if you develop a really great relationship with one of them, two of them, they’re going to have friends that are like, “Hey, David, I have a friend that’s looking for an associate. Do you want … pass me your resume and I’ll pass it along to him.” That happens all the time up there. So I knew I wanted to be back in SoCal, so my network stayed up there.
Dr. David Doan: Yeah, some of them may have a friend or two down here in southern California, but if I went to one of the LA schools like USC, Loma Linda, UCLA, I’m sure my network would have been more extensive.
Shaun Keating: Yes.
Dr. David Doan: But it is what it is.
Shaun Keating: Now you’re an Orange County boy again. Dr.David Doan: Yeah, born and raised.
Shaun Keating: So man, you wanted to get back down where it’s all at.
Dr. David Doan: Yeah, it’s the weather. It’s the weather.
Shaun Keating: Yeah. It is beautiful out. Hey, so what about … tell me a little bit about this. How the heck did you get in the Air Force there? Tell me a little bit about that. What was that all about?
Dr. David Doan: Oh, okay. It’s GPR, so it’s a general practice residency, okay? And that type of residency was at a VA hospital. So it’s a VA program for those looking at post- graduate, you know, dental school education, you go either two routes. You either go to a specialty school like endodontics, periodontics, orthodontics or something like that or you go a one year residency just to get a little bit more training, more specialized training in something.
Dr. David Doan: There’s the AEDG, the Advanced Dental Education system where you can learn more about like sedation and implants and veneers and stuff that dental school doesn’t … I mean, they might touch upon a little bit.
Shaun Keating: Yeah.
Dr. David Doan: But you’ll get more hands on experience and it’s more clinical. The VA hospital, it’s typically more hospital based. It’s you learn more about the medicine side. You really look at the patient as a whole. You can really see like what medications they’re taking, know if someone has some type of blood disorder or on some type of blood thinner. You know what labs to ask them for. What their numbers are, because that may determine their post-op healing.
Shaun Keating: Okay.
Dr. David Doan: Right? And what medications they should stop taking. So you treat the patients a little bit more, but at the VA hospital, the one that I was at.
Shaun Keating: Where was that at? What state?
Dr. David Doan: It was in California and it was in Sacramento, but that hospital was at the Air Force base.
Shaun Keating: Oh, okay.
Dr. David Doan: So during my education there, it was a dental clinic. It wasn’t a hospital at all. So my experience through the VA system was more clinic based and the great thing about the VA hospital is if the veterans qualify for dental care, then you can treat them in the most ideal treatment plan and finances, money is not an issue.
Shaun Keating: Yeah, it’s all paid for. We work with the VA. We love it.
Dr. David Doan: Yeah, yeah.
Shaun Keating: It’s like we do the VA Loma Linda and doing that for … this is our fifth year going on now and we’ve got one out in Vegas and one in Long Beach and then we might be getting this one out in the big headquarters out in Texas maybe.
Dr. David Doan: Oh, very nice.
Shaun Keating: But you’ve got to put bids out and they look at your work and they look at your reputation and we just … oh, it’s just the neatest thing. We actually got a meeting again, we go out each year and meet with all the doctors at the VA at Loma Linda, but they have a new facility they just had done like two, three years ago and it’s state of the art. So huge and it’s amazing. It’s good to give back to our guys, man, for freedoms and-
Dr. David Doan: Yeah.
Shaun Keating: Yeah.
Dr. David Doan: And the reason why I chose that is because I knew it would allow me to learn about implants, you know? Dental implants, I placed several of them when I was in my residency. You can’t really place anything in dental school, but I was familiar with it. I was comfortable with it. After like one or two implant placements, I was really comfortable with it to just do it right out of residency.
Shaun Keating: That’s so cool. That takes some balls, dude.
Dr. David Doan: Yeah, I mean, it was a great program, but again, Sacramento, not … the weather is not that great there.
Shaun Keating: It’s flat land out there, baby. It’s flat land. Remember the Sacramento Kings? Are they still a basketball team? Lord, no. I remember when the Malooth brothers owned them, you know, the guys that own I think the Rio or something? But no, that’s great, dude. So what about … tell me some of your CE, man. Where did you go in some of your CEs? Like implants, sinking implants, everything else. Do you do like endo? Tell me what you like to do, what you don’t like to do, what you refer out, but tell me a little bit about some of your CE and what you’ve kind of picked up. How long have you been out of school for?
Dr. David Doan: Seven years.
Shaun Keating: Oh, you’re just a puppy. But no, you’ve got great [inaudible 00:27:17] man. But tell me a little bit about some of your CE journey there, if you could.
Dr. David Doan: Yeah. As far as continuing education credits, I had an oral surgeon out when I was in Inglewood and he would … a few times a year, he would throw these great CE lectures. He would wine and dine us, but it would be like 50 general dentists there. But he was such a funny and charismatic guy that it made learning various topics of dentistry much more enjoyable.
Shaun Keating: Yes.
Dr. David Doan: You know, so it’s not really all just about taking it in, because I think some of this material can be very dry sometimes. But learning it from someone that’s very experienced learning from it who is passionate about it, it really sticks with you. And he would give us like binders of all information and very … it was good quality stuff, because he really cared about how his teachings impacts all of us in the dentistry field. You know?
Shaun Keating: That’s great.
Dr. David Doan: So it’s not just like cheap fact paper or something. The paper was good quality. Everything was printed in color, you know, so he allowed us to use those resources in our future, you know, to just revert back to it and whatnot.
Shaun Keating: Yep.
Dr. David Doan: And whatever comes along, you know, I get CE notifications in the mail and via email and for me, I just kind of pick and choose whatever I enjoy or something that’s a little bit interesting. I usually also like to hear from other peers, you know. When I worked in Inglewood, I worked over there for four years, so the doctor, he would always tell me like, “Oh, I took this class several years back regarding exodontia,” you know, removal of teeth, “Take it, it’s a really good course. You’ll get a lot out of it.” So use other friends and peers as a resource.
Shaun Keating: Absolutely.
Dr. David Doan: Yeah, because it’s worth it. And some of them may be really horrible, you know, and you want to stay away from those.
Shaun Keating: Yeah. Oh, and they’re out there. They’re out there. They’re just looking for the money and sometimes it’s just like … it’s best to go off of peer reviewed, you know, with your buddies and, “Hey, what do you think, man? What do you like?”
Dr. David Doan: And as far as the different fields of dentistry, for me, again, my old mentor in Inglewood, he said, “Learn as much as you can now while you’re under me, because you’ll always have me to fall back on,” you know, so just push the boundaries, learn as much as you can and he would tell me, you know, you only need 50 CE credits within a two year licensing cycle. You know, 50 CE is nothing. When he first came out, he would tell me whatever course I was remotely interested in, pay for it and then I took it and I learned from it. The first couple of years out, he would finish within … a licensing two year cycle with like 200, 300 CEs.
Shaun Keating: Oh, can you believe that?
Dr. David Doan: You know, most people will just do the bare minimum, the 50 or whatever.
Shaun Keating: We got 15 and that’s hard for me to get.
Dr. David Doan: Yeah. So for me, like right now, first year of ownership I have … the previous own, Dr. Barmé, he does orthodontics and I never got into it. I just always refer it out. But he said, “You know what? You should learn it. I’m slowing down now.” You become a better clinician if you just know certain aspects of the different fields of dentistry. You look at dentistry differently, so.
Shaun Keating: So you started doing that?
Dr. David Doan: So I took a course. I signed up for a course that he recommended. It’s a two year course once a month, four hours a night. Granted that, you know, you’re working Monday through Friday after a full day of work, once a month I give up that four hours. It’s an exhausting day, because then I don’t finish until 9:00 at night, but I just tell myself it’s only once a month. The course, it’s really expensive. It was like $12,000 and just buying a practice right out, I’m like, I’ve never spent that much on a CE course ever before, you know, as an associate. But now I have the means to expand my knowledge and my experience, so was like, “You know what? Let me do this.”
Shaun Keating: That’s so awesome. Yeah, you’ve got to do it. You’ve got to invest in your education, man, because it’ll come back tenfold. Now, is that conventional orthodontics or?
Dr. David Doan: Yeah, traditional, brackets and wires.
Shaun Keating: Yeah. What about some of that other stuff? The Invisalign and all that?
Dr. David Doan: Yeah, the clear liners? Yeah, yeah. I just went to a course this past week in Costa Mesa and got my certification.
Shaun Keating: Yeah.
Dr. David Doan: So I’m ready to implement that in my class.
Shaun Keating: That’s probably so easy to just scan it. Do you have the scanner yet or no?
Dr. David Doan: No. We’re pretty old school.
Shaun Keating: Yeah, no that’s okay, hey. You’re young. So tell me, you went, you associated for like four years and then you went and purchased the practice? Tell me how you started off and what you did.
Dr. David Doan: Yeah. They say … I think, depending on the year that you graduate from dental school, you’ll hear it from your peers like, oh, it’s so hard to find a job. I heard that left and right. In California, you know, everyone wants to be a dentist, in NorCal or SoCal. It’s going to be so hard. You’re going to have to move out to Texas or the Midwest. When I graduated from the residency program, I came down. You know, you have to wait a few months before you get your licensing from the board of … the dental board of the state and then once I got that, I started applying and I got jobs real easily.
Shaun Keating: Really?
Dr. David Doan: But I think the issue is finding an office that you liked to work at. That’s different. And finding days that you can work and filling the schedule. So I applied, I think to three jobs. The first job wanted me on Monday and Tuesday. The second job wanted me to work Monday and Wednesday and then another one was Tuesday and Thursday. Well, guess what? The common denominator was Tuesday. So I got accepted to all three after my working interview, but I can only accept one, right?
Shaun Keating: Yeah, exactly.
Dr. David Doan: So I took the Monday and Wednesday and then I had to continue to apply to find something that fit my schedule. Now I need to fill Tuesday, Thursday and Friday, you know? So it’s not really about how hard it is to find a job, it’s just finding the right scheduling and then on top of that, once you fit it into your schedule you’re not going to like every office.
Shaun Keating: Yeah, exactly. What did you like? Was it the Monday, Wednesday one or was it the Tuesday, Thursday, Friday?
Dr. David Doan: The one that I liked was the one that eventually I found that offered me a full time job.
Shaun Keating: Exactly.
Dr. David Doan: You know, so I had a … I was working at like three different offices with three different day schedules and then finally I fuond something on Craigslist. That’s where they post a lot of dental positions. And they said, you know, we’re looking for a full time dentist. Our previous associate had to leave and so we’re looking for a full time and I got that, and that was in Ladera Ranch.
Shaun Keating: Oh, you’re kidding?
Dr. David Doan: So I was way down there and I learned a lot from that mentor where we did sleep sedation. I learned like these full bony impacted wisdom teeth, implant placement, I mean, I learned a lot from that doctor down there.
Shaun Keating: That’s so sweet, I think I might know that guy.
Dr. David Doan: Cashman?
Shaun Keating: Yeah, what a trip. See, it’s so small in this world of dentistry, man. That’s crazy. Well, good for you. So then when you bit the bullet and purchased this practice man, what was that like?
Dr. David Doan: So it’s hard. To me, I equate it to finding a house, you know? It took me about two years when I was looking for a house and finally I did. I bought a house in 2015. But then during that time, I was looking for an office as well and that took, I think two years. I signed up to … I think at that time just one broker out there and I liked the way they supplied all the pictures, the videos on YouTube and the practice profile and I thought, man, I like looking at numbers, you know? And I like the way they presented it. And then it wasn’t until I met Matt, he works with B of A and I saw him … I met him at a dental convention.
Shaun Keating: Okay.
Dr. David Doan: And he said, “You know what? Email me and I’ll walk you through the whole process.” So I emailed him and we started to do a preliminary, like financial background check, which is what I call the … like the preapproval when you’re looking for a home, right?
Shaun Keating: Yep.
Dr. David Doan: So they get your preliminary numbers just so that you can give to the brokers, to let them know that you’re serious, you know, that you already went through that first step, right?
Shaun Keating: Yep.
Dr. David Doan: And so then I went through that first step, I got it, and then he said, you know, I need you to individually contact all these brokers. Don’t CC them. Don’t blind CC them. Individually and tell them, “Hey, I’m interested. This is what I’m looking for and please sign me up onto your mailing list.” And so now I started to receive a bunch of emails regarding all their listings.
Shaun Keating: Okay.
Dr. David Doan: And then the ones that I liked, I would look through them and I’d be like, “Eh, this one is good, this one is not, this one is okay.” But then you get a feeling of what type of practices are out there? How much are they selling it? Are they selling at 80% of collect … their three year average collections or are they listing their price above market value, above their collection rate?
Shaun Keating: Yeah.
Dr.David Doan: You know, the trends will change.
Shaun Keating: Absolutely.
Dr. David Doan: At one point it was like 50% and now it’s like at 80% of what they’re collecting. But when I came across … I think I was talking to Matt at some random time and he said, “Hey, you know what? I was just talking to someone from Henry Shine and she has this pocket listing,” just like real estate, “This pocket listing. It’s not even on the market yet and she just signed it.”
Shaun Keating: That’s perfect, you don’t have to pay the advisors.
Dr. David Doan: And he said, you know, “Contact her, because I think the practice is right for you.” And this banker, Matt, he has dinners with all these different brokers just so that he can retrieve this information, you know?
Shaun Keating: Absolutely.
Dr. David Doan: And so then I called her up and she set up a meeting and this Dr. Barmé, he ended up interviewing a lot of people, prescreening, sorry, and he would look at their resume and he … I mean, he’s really passionate about his practice. He put in 50 years of his life into dentistry.
Shaun Keating: Oh, that’s awesome.
Dr. David Doan: And he didn’t want to give it to just anybody. The broker told me he looked at two resumes and he didn’t even want to sell them … no, he didn’t want to even interview them, because he didn’t feel like it was the right fit and most sellers today, they just want their retirement money and they’re going to get the heck out of there, right?
Shaun Keating: Exactly.
Dr. David Doan: For him, he wanted to give it to the right person, because he loves all his patients that much.
Shaun Keating: Yeah, that’s important.
Dr. David Doan: Yeah. And after he interviewed me, I was the first person he interviewed and that was it. He really liked me. We talked for about three hours. It was only supposed to be like an hour meeting and the rest is history. We moved forward. It took three months. The process took three months. We closed escrow January of this year and I think this is a big indicator of someone who really cares for their patients.
Shaun Keating: Yep.
Dr. David Doan: In his contract, he wanted to work at least two years from the date he sold the practice so that he can help introduce me to everybody.
Shaun Keating: Oh, that is so cool.
Dr. David Doan: He’s 78 years old. He looks like he’s 60, because he still goes biking like 30 miles with his buddies and whatnot, and he told me, minimum two years. You know, as long as I’m physically capable to help you, I want to continue. And I said sure, you know, because to me.
Shaun Keating: Most guys bail. They’re like, “I’m out of here,” but that guy, I love that. He is … he’s a perfectionist. He works with us. That’s just a neat, neat thing how he kind of took you under the wing and that’s kind of like I did with my house. I remember when we sold our house and we had all these offers and full price and we interviewed the people, because this was like a long time house. Raised our kids in it and 20 years in it and it’s like, “I’m giving you this full price,” it’s like, “No, that’s okay.” We’re going to talk to some other people because I don’t want you in my house. I want someone that’s really going to appreciate this house and love it, because this is the baddest house around. Sure enough, we went through like three or four people, full offers, and we picked the people that … it was a husband, wife with two boys and we had two boys and it was like, man, this is destiny. And they were like almost crying, wanting it. And we were like, “Yes, okay, we’ll sell to you. Thank you.”
Shaun Keating: That’s so cool, dude. No, that’s really great. So how is it working together? Not a problem?
Dr. David Doan: Working together? Yeah. The way we scheduled it is he works two days a week, I work two days a week. I’m there five … I’m actually there five days a week.
Shaun Keating: Okay.
Dr. David Doan: On the days that he’s working, I’ll jump in. I mean, we usually have a full schedule, but if one patient comes in for an exam and they just need one filling, but there’s no room for him … because we’re … we really maximize the time in all the chairs that we have. But you know, if it’s just one filling, he’ll jump over and he’ll tell me, “Hey, Dave, we got one filling in room number two. Do you think you can do it real quick?” I’m like, “Yeah, sure,” you know?
Dr. David Doan: And he’s not used to that. For me, it’s increasing productivity. You don’t have to let patients leave your practice and then come back in just one filling. It’s going to take like 10, 15 minutes, you know? And just get the patient out. They’re happy. The parents are happy they don’t have to bring their kids back and schedule some time off of work to do it.
Dr. David Doan: But it’s been great and he’s actually there on the days that he’s not working too. I mean, he has his own office and he loves just walking around, just seeing patients. Then there’s some patients who didn’t get our welcome letter about me being the new doctor and all and so sometimes they get a little bit upset and they’re like, “Why didn’t anyone tell me?”
Shaun Keating: We did, 10 times.
Dr. David Doan: Yeah. And so when they assistants kind of hear that, they’ll actually go grab Dr. Barmé and so he’ll come down and he’ll do his thing like, “Hey, how are you doing?” Blah, blah, blah, and then he’ll have a heart to heart talk like, “Hey, you know what? I’m slowing down, but I want to introduce you to Dr. David and he’s a really great guy. I didn’t just pick anybody. It took me a long time.” And that transition, that introduction I think was really helpful and it’s still helpful.
Shaun Keating: So many times when that guy leaves and it’s up to the new dentist, that dentist doesn’t have the pull and they lose a lot of patients probably. It’s just a little bit of a psychological thing with these people that have been there forever. If the doctor can do it like he’s doing for you, that’s the way it should be done. And even too, having him around if he’s not stepping on your feet and he’s helping out with production and stuff and you’ll probably always get pearls from him, because he’s been in the trenches a long time.
Shaun Keating: You’re so young, I think it’s just a great thing that you fell in to there and everything kind of happens for a reason, I believe, and you’re supposed to be there and heck, you’re going to be right there by the dang Rams and everything.
Dr. David Doan: Yeah.
Shaun Keating: That’s a trip. So where are you living now? Is it a long commute for you or no?
Dr. David Doan: I live down the street from Disneyland. So borderline Anaheim, Garden Grove area.
Shaun Keating: Okay.
Dr. David Doan: It’s great, because I used to do … my commute to Inglewood used to be 33 miles. So round trip it’s 66 miles. An hour to maybe like 45, 50 minutes during the day and then an hour, an hour and five, ten minutes in the afternoon. Now my commute is about 12 miles, you know, round trip. So sometimes I get home in 20 minutes and I love it. I love it.
Shaun Keating: Heck yeah.
Dr. David Doan: They say, you know, what all my faculty members say, wherever you end up practicing, keep in mind where you want to live as well.
Shaun Keating: Yeah, exactly.
Dr. David Doan: So the closer they are, the more peace of mind you have when you know that you can just go straight home.
Shaun Keating: Absolutely. That’s so cool, man. Well, dude, we did a lot here. What about … tell me some of your marketing strategy. Do you guys do anything? Are you doing anything? Are you doing any mailers? Any social media?
Dr. David Doan: So Dr. Barmé, he had a website. It was a little bit older. It was just a way for people who are on the internet, which means everybody, if they wanted to Google something, that something was there. You know? And when I took over, I revamped the website.
Shaun Keating: Beautiful.
Dr. David Doan: Whether it helps or not, I mean, I get my little reports of like who clicked on the website, who ended up calling the phone number, who ended up using Google Maps to get to us, but as far as his marketing goes, it’s really all Google reviews and Yelp reviews, to be honest.
Shaun Keating: Okay.
Dr. David Doan: In the city of Norwalk, before I even bought his practice, I kind of did my research. I Googled him. I Yelped him. And he had 98 individual reviews and he’s at five stars and I read every single review, even the bad ones, the few bad ones that were in there, and then all the good ones and Google review. Same thing. In today’s day and age where everyone Yelps and Googles, like that’s such a big key. And so I don’t do any marketing at all and we get 40 brand new patients a month. And on top of that, I mean, our office is called Norwalk Dental Center, and so there’s another office that’s called Norwalk Dental or just Norwalk Dental or something like that.
Dr. David Doan: And so when people are Googling, I’m just always worried that they might leave a bad review that’s meant for another office.
Shaun Keating: Yeah, exactly.
Dr. David Doan: You know, I’m like you’re not even our patient.
Shaun Keating: Yeah, no, that’s the other … well, that’s why you’ve got to respond on the bad ones or whatever and say, “We’re sorry, but we’re Norwalk Dental Center, we’re not Norwalk Dental, okay?”
Dr. David Doan: Another thing that I learned as far as marketing goes, when I was in Ladera, it was Ladera Ranch Dentistry or something like and then I always thought, oh, that’s so clever, because if you’re living in that city and you just want to Google a dentist in the city that you’re in, you just Google dentist and then city, insert city, whatever.
Shaun Keating: Yep.
Dr. David Doan: And so then when I decided to change the name of the practice, because originally the name of our practice was Dr. Barmé’s name.
Shaun Keating: Yep.
Dr. David Doan: And I’m like, well, I don’t practice under his name, you know. So then I thought what could it be? And so I always liked that idea as far as marketing on the internet where everyone is on the internet, so I just came up with … well, I wanted Norwalk Dental, but that was already taken.
Shaun Keating: Yeah.
Dr. David Doan: So then I was like Norwalk Dental Center. It’s a little bit long, but I’ll take it.
Shaun Keating: That’s kind of good, though, because that comes up first page and first … using your city man, totally.
Dr. David Doan: Yeah.
Shaun Keating: So what about pieces of equipment? Anything digital in the future, you think?
Maybe scanning for impressions or?
Dr. David Doan: Yeah. Dr. Barmé, as far as all the high tech stuff goes, he did convert over to digital dentistry, so he had the digital sensors way back when. I don’t know if you remember when you connect things to the back end of the computer, it’s usually a USB, right?
Shaun Keating: Yep.
Dr. David Doan: Before that time, there was the ribbon, the PCMIA ribbon that you would connect like a printer to.
Shaun Keating: Yeah.
Dr. David Doan: I don’t know if you recall those, right?
Shaun Keating: I can’t even turn on these computers nowadays, so I don’t really know about that stuff.
Dr. David Doan: Yeah. So our DEXIS sensors are … the card readers are on that ribbon that’s connected to our older computers, but I need to update the sensors. I need to … but in order to do that, I need to update the computer systems.
Shaun Keating: Yes.
Dr. David Doan: And our pano, it’s on the analog film still. So we have a developer for the pano machine. Eventually I want to get that to digital. I want to bring in an intraoral scanner, but again, we’re on an older version of Windows. I won’t say which one.
Shaun Keating: No, that’s okay, hey, and it takes time on all those approaches, man. You guys are still crushing it now. Keep doing what you’re doing. That will come. That will come. You can get the bells and whistles. It’s not going to make you any more money right now. It might, I think if there’s anything out there that’s kind of neat is just the chairside scanners for impressions. It’s kind of a … and the reason I say, it’s just so accurate. It’s so accurate where impressions, you know, they expand and I’ve got expansions and shrinkage of alloys and zirconias and ceramics and I don’t know, I just think it’s a neat thing. It’s come a long way and I wouldn’t have recommended it three or four years ago, but a lot of [inaudible 00:47:33] guys are still even using that for scanning impressions, sending them to us.
Shaun Keating: But these iTeros and the 3Shape and True Def, there’s some neat ones out there, but yeah, with time, man. With time, for sure. On a closing note, tell me any advice you can give some of the younger dentists, seeing that you pretty much … any of the dos and don’ts, what you think would help them out just when they’re getting out of dental schools. What are some of the dos and don’ts, you think? I mean, you covered a lot of things on how to do things, but just what can you leave us with? Some dos and don’ts.
Dr. David Doan: You know, just … okay. I would say keep open minded as to where you want to practice and get any job that you can right off the bat. You know, you can be very selective, if you have the means to. Like if you have money reserves set up that can pay for your rent and food and whatnot, you know, then great. You could be a little bit more pickier, but you’ve got your loans coming straight out of school. You’ve got to pay those right away. No one is going to put a hold on it and if you do decide to go into forbearance or hardship or what not, that money is just going to climb.
Dr. David Doan: So just pick up a job, because the moment you pick up that job, whether it’s 60 miles away, the moment you take that, guess what? That will be your first line on your resume that you started working at A, B, C, you know, blah, blah, blah dental on January 1st, right? Great, whatever year, 2018. And your experience just builds from there. Even if you’re not there long enough, at least you started that history, that track record, because most offices nowadays will only look at you or only interview you if you have minimum two years, five years experience.
Dr. David Doan: The ones that take you right out of school, they just need help or something and they might not be the best places to work, but hey, just take it. Get the experience. Network and then eventually find your way to offices that you really, really like.
Shaun Keating: Oh, yeah.
Dr. David Doan: So yeah, just take whatever job and then learn as much as you can, which I touched upon earlier. Take all those CE courses, because at the CE courses, guess what? There are a bunch of other dentists there that may be retiring, that may be needing an associate, that may have a friend that needs an associate, you know? So networking is another big key there.
Shaun Keating: Do you do any conventions at all?
Dr. David Doan: Yeah. I mean, I go to the dental conventions, but really to network. I mean, really to hang out with my friends.
Shaun Keating: Yeah, no, I hear you. It’s like yep, yep, for sure. Well, that’s awesome. Hey, Dr. Doan, man, it’s been a pleasure to meet you, first and foremost.
Dr. David Doan: Yes, likewise.
Shaun Keating: But you’re just very sharp and I look forward to working together with you. We’re going to give you a tour out here and let you see everybody. But man, thank you so much for coming in. It’s just … you’re a young, bright star. I can see it in you, man, and you just … I can see your passion for it and it gets me excited. It gets me really excited when I see young dentists come in and the whole thing, so many doctors, I mean, at the beginning of it all, “Oh, I’m only going to work two days or three days.” You went to two, three different practices to fill those five days. You wanted to work five days.
Dr. David Doan: I was working six days at one point.
Shaun Keating: Six days, yeah. I mean, so and then even working in pharmacy too or whatever it is you’ve got to do. You’re a worker bee and you kind of need to do that when you’re starting off. You need to work it and I think anyone that’s looking to hire you as a full timer, if they’re seeing that this guy right out of school he bounced in and, “Well, why are you in three practices?” “Well, because I can only get Mondays and Wednesdays here. I can get Tuesdays and Thursdays here and I’ve got Friday and Saturday at this one.
Dr. David Doan: Mm-hmm (affirmative)
Shaun Keating: But they would like that, I would like that as a business owner to see someone that’s out there hustling and I’m trying to get experience. You know, this one kind of fell out of the way, because I didn’t like this, this and that or whatever it is. But you don’t want to see someone, “Well, I had a job for six months two days a week and that was it and then I didn’t have a job for a few months and then I got one over here and I only got-” but to have it filled up like that, it’s just … it comes back to you, man. I think that’s great, dude.
Shaun Keating: But it’s just great to see your enthusiasm and you’ve got a great lab here. We’re going to make you look good, baby. Let’s start doing some big roundhouses and some four on ones and we’ll walk you through it all.
Dr. David Doan: Yeah. Okay, great.
Shaun Keating: But you know, we’ll have you out here. We do a lot of seminars. We do over the shoulder programs. But man, I’m excited for you and can’t thank you enough for all the work and thank you for coming on down.
Dr. David Doan: Oh, thank you for having me.
Shaun Keating: All right, Dr. Doan, have a good one, dude.
Dr. David Doan: You too.
Shaun Keating: All right baby, bye-bye.
Dr.David Doan: Bye.
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